The new FW interface blues: In need of second opinons.

[sad iron]

OK, so i decided to slim down my set up a little while back, get a new, more updated FW interface with more pres onboard and hopefully an upgrade in overall sound as well.

I did a lot of reading and decided to try the Focusrite Saffire Pro 40. My setup is an iMac with a couple external FW drives and a LiquidMix 16 at the back end, with the interface the first part of the daisychain. It took a while to get the LM16 to play nicely with my set up when I first got it and that made me nervous about bringing in a new piece, but I went for it anyway. My previous (and current..more on that to come) interface was the 828MKII, which I bought when it was frist out in '03. It's served me well for many years now, always been solid and never let me down. But I know there are issues with the converter/sound quality. I thought about a BLA mod, but was reluctant to spend the $$ on a piece that's going on eight years old.

So in comes the Saffire Pro 40. At first, everything was great. It recognized the other FW devices striaght off and seemed to play well. But after a while the thing cut out while still hooked up. All the devices were present, but no sound. I found if I exited the LM16 software, audio came back again. I could restart Logic and the LM and all was fine. Until it happened again. Which it did. More and more often. Also, there were times when the interface wasn't recognized in the audio setup of my machine at start up. Power cycle the Pro 40 and it would come back. Fine for another couple restarts, and then this would happen again.

I contacted Focusrite. They were really helpful when I had trouble with the LM, so I was hoping this could be resolved. I have to say that Andy over there was helpful as much as he could be. I got some suggestions, like unplug all the other FW devices and see if it happens. Which I did, and it didn't. But it would happen again as soon as the other devices were present again. They also recommended I change the FW buffer in the Saffire mix software, which I did, and change the buffer on the LM software. Which I did. Still the problems persisted and all the while I was becoming more and more filled with dread each time I sat down at the computer. No way to enjoy new gear.

So I'm taking the Saffire Pro 40 back, even though I was really impressed with the sound quality overall, especially for the price. I knew in my heart of hearts that it was a bridge too far to hope that I could get a $500 interface that would be a great upgrade for my set up and be problem free... If you're looking for an inexpensive interface what sounds great, this is a great box, as long as you don't want to daisychain a Liquid Mix.

And now I'm on the prowl again for a FW interface. I need something that will give me access to at least 14-16 inputs at once with either. I'd like to stay pretty close to the feature set of the 828, since that's what I've already built around. I don't have a lot of outboard stuff, but I really need the LM16 to work. I've come to rely on it heavily for EQ and compression.

So I've put up a poll to apprise you of the choices I've ben considering. Some are standalone boxes, some are mixers with FW. I'm really intrigued by the new Mackie Onyxi series, but am wary of Mackie's flightiness when it comes to their interface products. They seem to release and then drop products faster than my junior high girlfriends dropped me.

Similarly, I've coveted the A&H Zed R-16, but $2000 might be too much for me to spend right now.

If you all feel inclined, I'd love to hear your experiences with any or all of these pieces of gear and your opinions on where I should go.

You should also feel free to tell me to stop screwing and with something that works and keep rocking. But rest assured, I'm rocking still despite these problems. Nothing stop the rock.

[Bro Shark]

I haven't done much research on that R-16, but on first glance it looks like it could be the bees knees with PT9, yes? Considering it has 16 allegedly good/decent mic pres built in, and you get a fully functional control surface plus summing etc, it seems like a pretty awesome way to go.

[sad iron]

OK, in reading further, it looks like only the Mackie 1640i will return individual signals to individual tracks via firewire. What? Wouldn't that be the reason to have a FW mixing desk? And I can only get that feature via the highest priced model? Argh.

[calaverasgrandes]

So, the R16 doesnt do that? I looked over the PDF yesterday and it mentions in several places that it is an 18 in/out machine. It alos mentions returning your track and mixing them down to 2 buss to be re-recorded to the host.

[mrclean]

Yes - I think only the most expensive model will return to individual tracks.

Last year I was looking to step up from a little two track USB mixer and considered the N12 / N8 but ended up getting a Mackie 1220i.

I like the Mackie. It was easy to get connected and suits my minimal purposes. I only have a little 10x10 room so I'm not doing full bands but can get a guitar bass vocal thing going or a minimal kick snare 3 mic thing going. I'm just doing demos and we end up going into a "real" studio for actual tracking.

That said, the mixer pres are good and the EQ is nice. I've had no trouble with it. It is solidly built and its small form factor fits my little room.

[calaverasgrandes]

While I really like teh idea and such of the R16, at that price point I'm also looking at Apogee and other stuff that is converter only. Also spaeking for myself as a former sound reinforcement company owner I always like to have discrete seperate components. That way you can have teh one box being repaired while you limp along on what remains. EG you better have a back up interface to mix on in case your ZED R16 has to go home to get something replaced/repaired.
But I do miss my days of mixing on a mixer.
board tape!

[sad iron]

So, the R16 doesnt do that? I looked over the PDF yesterday and it mentions in several places that it is an 18 in/out machine. It alos mentions returning your track and mixing them down to 2 buss to be re-recorded to the host.

No, the R16 will do it. I meant the only mackie Onyxi.

I've been coveting the r16 for a long time. I'm worried about just what you mention: that the board will leave me stranded with nothing else to work with.

I guess I should also factor into this that I'm not really doing too much client work these days. Most of what I'm working on is for me. Can I justify buying a huge, expensive piece for just my stuff? Well, sure I can, but should I?

The 1620i, at $899, has just the right number of ins for my projects. I'm really bummed about this FW return stuff. If I had a board, I want to be able to mix on it. How does that work for you mrclean? Do you mix on your 1220i?

[b3groover]

Steinberg (aka Yamaha) MR816x

The quality of the conversion is on par with much higher-end units and the included REV-x reverbs, which can work as VST plug-ins in your DAW, are worth the price of admission alone.

Has ADAT so you can expand a single MR816x with something like the Behringer ADA8000 (which sounds fine as long as you don't use the mic preamps) or the Presonus DigiMax, and have 16 inputs into the computer.


I have one and I also have the N12. They can be daisy-chained. With the N12 I have the control surface, 12 inputs, MIDI i/o, and a great monitoring section. With the MR816x I have 8 more inputs (plus 8 more if I want to use my ADA8000), the REV-x plug-in, 8 outputs, and two more headphone outputs (assignable).

[calaverasgrandes]

I personally hate the ADA8000. But from what I gather it's very succeptible to not so hot clocking. So those of us with MOTU units and their infamously just good enough clocking are bound to get some smeared sounding results out of those. Speaking of. Clocking my 828MKII from my ART MPA II sounds just dandy. Go figure.

[mrclean]

mrclean? Do you mix on your 1220i?

No I don't. I mix in the box. I use Cubase and the automation available to me there.

It would be great if Mackie offered some kind of firmware update that would enable returning all channels back to individual channels on the board somehow for the cheaper models of the Onyx i series...