Getting a new AMP tonight.. need suggestions

[???????]

The comments about amps with PCBs being designed to be replaced rather than repaired is just silly... A decent Fender tube amp will last decades if you maintain it, and guess what the maintenance would be the same for a vintage model...caps, tubes, and parts that are mechanical like tube sockets and jacks and switches will always wear eventually.

Kindly, I don't think it's silly at all.

I've repaired so many Hot Rod Devilles, Hot Rod Deluxes, Blues Juniors, etc. in my lifetime it's obscene. They always have the same problems, too, resulting directly from the style of construction and build quality. Here are the problems that always happen:

1) the input jack physically breaks. It's made of plastic. Any "field use" type of situations (touring, backline at a venue or studio) puts stress on it. If the nut becomes loose (which always happens) even by a little bit, it's not long for this world. The PCB connections are load-bearing, also, under those circumstances which means those joints are susceptible to cracking even if the jack stays intact.

2) the solder joints on the PCB-mount tube sockets crack from tube replacement. This is almost as much of an epidemic as #1. Each time a tube is removed or re-inserted, the solder joints are stressed. After a couple of times, they crack and connection becomes intermittent. They then have to be re-flowed, which is only a mild PITA for someone qualified (but dangerous if you don't know what you're doing). And then it's only good until the next time it happens.

3) a power tube shorts, causing a small fire inside, necessitating replacement of the entire circuit board that the tube sockets are mounted to, most times.

Vintage and boutique amps made with off-board "moving/hot parts" exhibit NONE of these problems.

Compounding this is the reality that these "mount everything to the PCB" amps are not very convenient to work on. When I say they're designed to be replaced I don't mean people actually do so--of course you can get one worked on. I just mean that they're not designed for quick or inexpensive field repair. As a result, repair is incredibly inefficient, most times, and therefore more costly. Maintenance is not "the same."

Open up an old Fender Deluxe and each component is mounted in eyelets on a tag board. One cap goes bad? You touch your soldering iron to two places and it comes out. In goes the new one. Done!! In a "mount everything to the PCB" amp you have to do any or all of the following:

Disconnect ribbon cable and/or un-mount all the pots from the chassis. Unscrew 8-12 screws (one of which holds the ground lug). Flip the whole board over. Locate the proper traces/holes (tedious). Desolder and re-solder with the board upside down in an awkward position. Reverse the whole process.

It sucks!

I agree that a "decent" Fender amp will last decades if properly cared-for. However, our opinions of what is "decent" might differ.

To me, the "hot rod" and "blues" series are what they are and what they always have been-- "Prosumer" gear. There's nothing wrong with prosumer gear. They allow people on a budget to get decent-sounding gear for a very low initial investment, compared to decades past. But it is prosumer gear.

One of the hallmarks of prosumer gear, to me, is that repair bills can often outstrip the value of the equipment itself.

[daveg62]

If you're gigging a lot personally I wouldn't bother with something old that needs maintenance. I agree there are some killer old amps out there but why take a chance with one. Get something newer and reliable. Still say mesa, suhr, shiva. Budda makes nice amps. I've never been much of a fender fan but that's just me.
What guitars, pedals do you use??

[???????]

What's interesting is how different my experience has been. To me, few things are more reliable than an old Fender, Traynor, or whatever. It's part of why they're so popular among touring artists, rental services, and backline providers.

Now there are many new amps that are made without compromise and are every bit as reliable as a quality vintage amp, and even more so in many cases. Most are from small manufacturers, and even a few from major manufacturers (the custom shop Fender tweeds are very nice).

But most of those cost more than $1100, unfortunately.

I know conventional wisdom is that "new = reliable" and "old = maintenance," but with tube audio gear I simply don't find the first part of that axiom to be true. Old shit will require maintenance once in awhile, but if you go through it and do all the electrolytic caps, you'll likely be good for quite some time. Tubes simply are not that well-suited to modern manufacturing and design methods, so the most bulletproof tube gear tends to be the stuff from days past--or the stuff made in that style.

[BrontoSoreAss]

Traynor has these little combo amps from the 70's. They fucking kill. 1 channel but they break up amazingly well with a boost/drive/dist/fuzz (choose your flavor) pedal. Can run them with a closed or open back. Sorta fenderish but they got there own thing going on as well, almost a bit of vox flavor actually. The stock speaker is pretty weak but throw in a v30 or whatever and you'll be ready to rock.

I got one in mint condition a couple years ago with a v30 in it for $500. Cured my gear lust instantly. Traynor actually reissued this amp quite recently but you can still get an original for way less then the new reissues.

It's perfect for recording, practicing at moderate levels and gigging. You can run it in a smallish room with no PA or have it mic'd up without pissing off the sound guy.

I only have a couple small complaints about this amp: the reverb gets really intense in a weird way - its cool in its own right, but generally isn't as useable as fender style reverb. Also the tremolo on these amps can be a bit noisy. So as long as your not looking to bring the surf, you should be good to go.

Another great option from Traynor is the YBA-1 - It has a bassman/jtm thing going on, sounds pretty different from the little guy. It's a great sounding amp but it's also pretty fucking loud, so that should be kept in mind. It can also be an awesome amp to record bass with. There are a few different variations on this amp - different sized transformers, some have a choke some don't.... they are all good amps, the differences are really just a matter of taste. These can also be had cheap.

I own both amps but I use the little guy way more just because the volume is more suited to my needs. Though I'm hunting for a baritone to run through the YBA-1 into my bandmates bass cab to bring the thunder! (that setup actually sounds stupidly good for guitar as well... but it's also stupidly loud).

Also it's worth mentioning that I've had both these amps for a couple years and they have been used heavily for recording,practicing and gigging (the little one in particular) and I've had no technical issues with them - they have been very reliable.

If I had $1100 I would get one of each and have cash to spare ....well I did.

[???????]

Good call on the Traynor.

If you happen to find one with the original EL34 output tubes, throw those on eBay and make most of your money back. The originals were Mullards. They last forever and tube dudes pay premium even for used ones.

Legend has it that Pete Traynor's test for a new amp design was to take one up to the roof of the shop and throw it as far as he could, crashing it to the ground below. Put tubes back in, and it had to work perfectly, or it was back to the drawing board.

Don't know if this is true or not, but the results bear it out. The only thing harder to kill than an old Fender is an old Traynor.

[EasyGo]

Taking the Fender Hot Rod amps as an example: they have PCB mounted jacks, pots, and tube sockets. This is all a recipe for failure-- each time a cable is plugged or unplugged, or a tube changed, it will flex the solder joints, eventually cracking them. If a power tube shorts, it will often take out a large circuit board with it-- whole board will need to be replaced. If you have just one capacitor fail, you'll have to disconnect ribbon cables and lift a couple of boards just to get to the one component you need to replace. This is lots of bench time at an expensive tech. The jacks are made of plastic and are PCB-mounted and they break constantly.

+1 After having owned a Hot Rod Deluxe briefly, I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. Take one of these apart - it's more like a PC than a tube guitar amp. My input jack went intermittent shortly after the amp was purchased new. This was such a problem at the time (early 2000s) that Fender covered the cost of replacing the jack as part of some sort of hushed recall. These amps do sound alright, but I would never gig with one of these. I would recommend an amp with old school chassis mounted jacks, pots, and switches.

As for recommendations, I like:

Vintage Fender Twin Reverb - yes it's heavy, but it has tone for miles. Used with a Tube Screamer or clone, it does the 'in between' sound beautifully, even at a lower volume. If you want smaller, get a Deluxe or Princeton as suggested.

Mesa Boogie 50 Caliber + - a 50 watt Boogie combo amp from the 90s that does clean and in between sounds better than you'd think. I compared it with Matchless, Bad Cat, Victoria and other boutique amps - all of them sounded fine, but the Boogie held its own. Definitely sounded tighter and tougher than the blues oriented amps that would break up early and sound spongy. It's heavy but portable, and built like a brick s--thouse. I'm not really a big fan of the Boogie distortion sound so I use a Fulldrive 2 for a less brutal overdrive than the Boogie preamp buzz.

Vintage Music Man HD65 - I think that's what it's called. 2x12 with a 65 watt amp. These are strange in that they have a solid state preamp and tube power amps. They sound cool with the preamp turned down and the power tubes cranked. I suspect the RD50 is a cool amp too, but I have never played one.

[monomedia]

If I had $1,100 for a new amp, I'd probably just call Jim at Little Dawg and have one made to my specs: http://www.littledawgamps.com/index.php.

[calaverasgrandes]

TRAYNOR is your best call for under a grand I think. Tag board point to point wiring. Most dont have much in the way of gain but they love to be hurt with a pedal. The tone control IIRC is essentially the fender circuit with some mods. I shouldnt say this here but I will. Their bass amps make wonderful guitar heads. Check out the YBA1, YBA1a and YBAIII.
Also due to their tag board circuit they can be modded to impersonate marshalls as well.
I love their amps so much its really a crime I dont own one. But the buzz seems to be increasing on those. I no longer can find them for $300.

Also, Mesa Boogie. Sure they are thought of as Metal amps, but before the Recto series I almost never saw anything but blues, fusion and roots rock guys with those.
The MK II is great. The MK IV is awesome, though some of those more elaborate Mesa's take a bit of diggin in to understand how the various knobs and switches interact. There are so many on teh MK IV that they had to stick some on the back!
There are also a lot of smaller boogie combos that are really nice.
The VT22 and other older Ampegs are brilliant sounding amps, though some of the ones I have seen had some oddball rectifier and other tubes that may need some tech work to transition them to a modern equivalent.
Oh yeah, and Musicman heads are there own thing entirely. solidstate pre, tube power?

[vvv]

I have, amongst others, a Pro,Jr., a Rickenbacker M8, a Silver Jubilee, even a Elektar, etc.

I play bass in my band through a MusicMan HD130 into a Bagend 1x12", altho' I just bought a cheapo HK 15"&tweeter. When the MM was used for guitar, I played it through a open-back 2x12" with Celestions - best Twin I ever played. (I now run the Elextar through that cab, ~~). I note I bought that MM head (blond with cover, A+++) for US $100 about 1994 as a generic back-up for guitar and bass when "on the road" ...

I had a Mesa Mark IIB until earlier this year when I sold same (along with another Jubilee) to pay some bills, and because the thing sounded awesome only when loud, and believe me, it was loud. I played it through a Power-Soak, I used the 60w. setting, it was next to useless in a home studio ... Butt cranked - freekin' awesome.

But if I had the dosh, and got a good price, again, a small Boogie.

I fell in love with the seldom seen .22Cal. years ago, and the Heartbreaker this year. The Dual Recto inna 2x12" combo format also kills.

[BrontoSoreAss]

Also, Mesa Boogie.

I use to run a mesa mark III. It sounded amazing when it was loud as hell - I dialed it in so it was a fuzz machine - Made my big muff feel inadequate. Police. Yes. Police - and pissed off sound guys - it was stupid how loud it was. It was a good amp for making friends. I did at least always get compliments on my guitar tone.

It definetly was a pretty flexible amp tonewise, but I did always feel the clean was a little bit lackluster. It also reacted to pedals in a really great way which made for a lot of fun/stupidness.

I still have the amp, just haven't ran it for awhile - trying to sell/trade it actually, but craigslist has not been treating me kindly.

[Ron's Brother]

http://www.orangeamps.com/products.asp? ... iew&ID=103

Ended up getting the tiny terror combo. yeah, only one channel. But I just loved it so much.

[Nick Sevilla]

American Blues = Fender

I have a blue Fender hot Rod Deluxe.

One 15" speaker, all the right knobs. Reverb. Two independent channels, one with two "distortion" settings.

I LOVE MINE.

It cost less than 500 bucks new.

Cheers

[jgimbel]

I just went on a long quest for an amp that was loud enough to do smaller gigs with but still be usable in the studio. I really wanted a Fender, so I was mostly looking at them. The options I ended up loving were the Deluxe Reverb Reissues, Custom Vibrolux (as someone else suggested), 59' Tweed Bassman, and silverface Bassman amps. Build quality aside, say what you want about the reissue amps but jesus they do sound really nice. I'm probably going to pick up a Deluxe Reverb within the next ouple months mostly for use in the studio, there's just something magical about it. I wouldn't buy one new for that price though, I'd get one used for around $600. The Vibrolux's bright channel sounded almost identical to the Deluxe Reverb to me. Added bonus of the "normal" channel, and having 2 10"s instead of 1 12". The Tweed Bassman also sounds pretty incredible, it's another amp I'm hoping I'll have at some point. I almost bought one, but I thought it would be silly to buy a reissue Bassman without at least trying a vintage one or two since they're available even cheaper than the reissues. Ended up with a 1972 Bassman 50. I actually went with it over a 1969 one, which sounded amazing, but I wanted something that would work well for bass too (multitasker!) and the 1972 was a lot cleaner than the 1969. a pre-1970 Bassman would be a great guitar rig if you want some breakup. Only thing about vintage is that I'd never buy one without trying. I tried a number of vintage Fenders, some were incredible, some were pretty horrible (I'm sure they weren't always, but you can't always be sure who's messed with what). I played a silverface Twin that was TERRIBLE. Glad I found some great ones! Btw my Bassman was $400!

[calaverasgrandes]

I still have the amp, just haven't ran it for awhile - trying to sell/trade it actually, but craigslist has not been treating me kindly.

plus one on that. I havent been able to sell anything on CL for a reasonable price all year. Yet other folks in my area are asking insane prices. EG: I couldnt get better than $850 fro my Stingray 5 fretless. Beautiful bass with perfect action and awesome tone.
Every week I see fickle wanna be's giving up on their bass playing and selling their 4 year old stingray for $1300. I personally like teh older Rays frmo the early 90's the best. The fit and finish was flawless, the wood was beautiful and the basses just rock. But hey what do I know!
Mesas do sound best when cranked. Their whole gimick was that you could get the equivalent of a stacks volume and tone out of a combo. Still, I have heard guys smoke with those at decent levels. I have also heard them sound terrible. Those tone controls are not foolproof.


About various twins bassmans sounding like ASS. Usually they just need a recap and some caig deoxit on the pots. Same issue with a lot of old Traynors and Ampegs. Though to be honest, I like the "40 years old, dying caps" sound for guitar. And shoot, I am always amazed by how much distortion you can pile on a bass before it actually sounds distorted in the mix.

[BrontoSoreAss]

plus one on that. I haven't been able to sell anything on CL for a reasonable price all year.

I've had at least six people tell me they were going to buy my amp FOR SURE. I've also had very bad luck buying gear of CL this year - In theory I am supposed to go check out some guy's baritone guitar tomorrow night - unfortunately he can't seem to find the time to give me his address or propose an alternative meeting space. Same story all year long.