Snare drum tuning

[losthighway]

I have been getting so much better at tuning drums thanks to some helpful tips on here over the years, as well as just trial and error. I have one remaining mystery that totally has my goat and I wonder if any of you drum savvy folks can offer advice.

My snare drum sounds brilliant right now, except the ring after. The problem (at least not directly) is not the top head. I can mute that with moon gel, other implements, but the ring comes from the bottom.

All my favorite drummers to record tune their bottom snare head really tight. I've messed around with the bottom head tuning a bit but there is still a really clear note that sustains for almost five seconds. I've tried tightening the snare wires as well as loosening them. I have some tape under there, not really doing it.

The initial sound is gorgeous but then it just sings this note after.

For the record it's a birch (I believe) Tama Star Classic. I'm not sure about the dimensions, I'm guessing 14x5. New head on top is a coated Remo Dot/controlled sound whatever. Bottom head is a typical clear one ply deal.

Thoughts?

[MoreSpaceEcho]

how's it sound in a mix? is the ring still problematic?

try loosening one lug a bunch?

[The Scum]

One trick that can help is to loosen the 4 bottom lugs that are adjacent to the snares. This can keep the head from being so eager to ring, and makes the snares a little more responsive. This works better on 10-lug snares than on 6 or 8.

You can also try loosening everything...both heads, and the snare wires. With wood drums, it seems like the line between "tight" and "too-tight" is easier to cross than with metal drums.

A friend had a 5x14 maple DW drum that he complained had never really worked for him. I asked to borrow it, and give it a whirl. When I got it, it had been torqued up into marble-countertop tension, and was really ringy and choked. Backing both heads and the snare wires off really got it to open up, for a full fatback kinda sound.

[Gregg Juke]

The lug loosening trick is a good one.

I would contest the idea that the ring is primarily coming from the bottom head. It's usually and mostly the top. Drop the Moon Gel, and make a donut (an old drum head, with about a one-inch or so circle cut-out; no flange/hoop, and no center).

Place the donut on the drum (now you basically have a double-thick head on the top outer edge, where most ring occurs). The recorded sound should be drastically different in regards to ring, without having to loosen the heads beyond playability, or de-tune and muffle into uselessness ortape wallets down or other craziness.

Also, when you get it tuned-up to where you like it, if you add Lug Locks (tm) from LT Lug Lock (Google them), your drum will stay in-tune forever, basically. Lug Locks plus donut = very well-tuned, recordable drum.

GJ

[xaMdaM]

A coupla' things I try to do;

A) Tune the snare to what I like. (90% of the time, I don't end up with a bad ring)

B) Try a flag of gaff or two. Put em' in line with the lugs, between the lug and the snares.

C) Take off the top head and tape a small wad of gauze or felt to the inside, just off of center of the drum. (Tedious, but worth it if that bottom head is giving you what you want.

D) Some combination of all of the above.

[maggot]

I'd detune the bottom head somewhat from where you think it should be especially the lugs nearest the snares. Make sure you're not getting a strong fundamental from the bottom head, but it's not flabby either and you're not hearing a lot of weird overtones. Crank up the top head and add moongel to taste. I like lots of crack and snare without much ring, and this seems to work.

[fossiltooth]

If you get me started on this subject, I will go on way too long. The short version is that I think it's important to make sure the ring you do have sounds good before doing any dampening. If you want a comprehensive guide on how to do that, you can check out this article I wrote on drum tuning for engineers:

Studio Skillset: Drum Tuning Essentials

Hope this helps. There's a whole section on snare tuning and the relationship between heads.

[digitaldrummer]

are you sure you are not getting a sympathetic ring from one of the tom heads? if you take the snare in another room do you still hear the ring? I've just never had a bottom snare head that rang for 5 seconds - especially when the snare wires are engaged because that effectively chokes or mutes the resonance a bit.

if it's really the culprit you could try dropping a couple cotton balls inside the drum. they'll bounce around w/o choking it too much but might dampen the ring (but i would be surprised if its not really a bottom tom head you hear?)

also, make sure you really have a "bottom snare" head. they are a lot thinner than a typical top or bottom head so they can buzz the snares better (sorry if you already knew that...).

Mike

[drumsound]

I also am suspect of the bottom head of a snare ringing for 5 seconds. There's something else going on somewhere.

[losthighway]

Thanks for all the feedback, folks. Yeah, the skepticism is warranted (always in this business?). I'm not exactly sure what the trouble is. After posting, reading some ideas I tweaked it some more and got it better, but still not right.

It's weird cause I had that thing sounding perfect last time I changed the heads.....

We ended up recording a much mellower song than originally planned, so I used my "dead snare"- which is some random metal snare with a 3" wide strip of t-shirt stretched under the top head. That thing doesn't ring at all- kinda Ringo sounding. But, it's too dead for some types of songs.

As for my original dilemma I will take all the tips under advisement, experiment and report back. Thanks everyone!

[Gregg Juke]

>>>>It's weird cause I had that thing sounding perfect last time I changed the heads.....<<<<

Funny how TapeOp threads seem to coincide with real/outside-of-the-cyberworld experiences. I went to the studio tonight. We were listening to some drum tracks that my partner had tracked on Sunday with another drummer; I wasn't there.

I had the drums tuned and miked great. Sunday, this other fellow started "tuning" the drums, and now there is an egregious ring that has to be squelched with massive EQ.

I'm ag-ger-vated.

If you won't have a lot of other folks messing with your stuff, try those Lug Locks. they really will keep the snare tuning in-place.

GJ

[Snarl 12/8]

Try a piece of 81/2x11 paper just plopped on the ringey snare head if you want a dead/vintagey sound. (no tape, moongel, blah, blah, blah) It's dead, but the paper still gives you good attack.

I'm pretty sure I got that from a garges post right here on this very TOMB thingy.

[fossiltooth]

It's weird cause I had that thing sounding perfect last time I changed the heads.....

This is why I'm a big advocate of notating some of your favorite tunings for each drum. Once you get a sound you like, you can write down the note of each head, or their drum dial readings, and always have an easy reference point if you land way off the mark.

Try it. You'll thank yourself.

[cgarges]

are you sure you are not getting a sympathetic ring from one of the tom heads? if you take the snare in another room do you still hear the ring? I've just never had a bottom snare head that rang for 5 seconds - especially when the snare wires are engaged because that effectively chokes or mutes the resonance a bit.

Yeah, I'm with Mike on this. It would be REALLY unusual for this problem to really be coming from the bottom snare head. I've never run across anything like that.

It's weird cause I had that thing sounding perfect last time I changed the heads.....

Well, modern drumhead manufacturing should be at the height of perfection. We have incredibly tolerences in machinery nowadays and making even something as tweaky as a plastic membrane with some kind of consistency ought to be completely possible. But for some reason, and I blame it on crappy workmanship, we just can't seem to get any kind of consistency in drumhead manufacturing. And over the years, I've noticed ups and downs. In the late 90s, Remo's QC really went to shit and unfortunately for them, this coincided with the advent of LOTS of (relatively) new drumhead companies' success. People started getting sick of not being able to get what they wanted out of Remo's (and I really do think it had a lot to do with huge batches of terrible heads) and started investigating Aquarian, Attack, and newer Evans offerings. After a few years of this, Remo's QC seemed to get much better, but I've noticed it slipping again recently. This is a gigantic pain for me because a lot of local stores don't stock some of the heads I REALLY like, but I'm terrified to buy drumheads when I can't open up the boxes and tap on them to see what I'm getting. Ugh.

We ended up recording a much mellower song than originally planned, so I used my "dead snare"- which is some random metal snare with a 3" wide strip of t-shirt stretched under the top head. That thing doesn't ring at all- kinda Ringo sounding. But, it's too dead for some types of songs.

Anything that impedes contact with the head at the bearing edge is going to completely destroy any sensitivity the drum might have. I'd much rather put one layer of a T-shirt across the top of the head than get into messing with the bearing edge.

Try a piece of 81/2x11 paper just plopped on the ringey snare head if you want a dead/vintagey sound. (no tape, moongel, blah, blah, blah) It's dead, but the paper still gives you good attack.

I'm pretty sure I got that from a garges post right here on this very TOMB thingy.

That's been a favorite technique of mine for years. You can really tailor the amount of muffling by messing with the number of layers of paper. If you're really bashing the snare drum, you'll go through a lot of paper, but I think the "Ringo" kind of sound you get form doing that is best suited for less-than-killing-it technique anyway.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Statick]

you're right to think the ring is due to the bottom head. it's not coming from the bottom head - the ring is coming both from the top head and from the drum itself - but the problem is being caused by the bottom head. the earlier poster suggesting dropping the bottom head a little is quite correct.

as with all drums, the overall snare sound is determined by the tuning of both heads. the basic rule is quite simple : top head controls pitch, bottom head controls tone. or, more specifically - the tuning of the bottom head in relation to the top head is what determines the overall tone of the drum. getting this right can be really hard when you're still learning.

the thing that confuses most people at first is that adjusting either head will change the relationship between them, and therefore alter the tone. so it's easy to think that changes made to the top head control both pitch and tone, and changes to the bottom head are just mysterious. so, most people try to set the bottom head a particular way (very tight is quite common), then control everything from the top head. this will never really work, unless you happen to set the bottom head tension by chance to exactly where it needs to be.

remember - pitch is controlled by the top head alone. tone is controlled by the relationship between them.

so the important thing to do is first get the pitch you want by only adjusting the top head. then you can eliminate the top head from the equation. you probably want the bottom head to be quite tight while you do this. once you've got the pitch set, you can now leave the top head alone. this is really important. by setting the pitch and choosing to leave the top head alone, it becomes clear that the tone of the drum is now entirely controlled by changes to the bottom head. suddenly controlling the tone of the drum becomes much much easier, and the rule "top head pitch, bottom head tone" starts to work. of course once you've got the tone you want, you may find the pitch is slightly too high or low, so you want to change it. and as you adjust the top head again, you also change the relationship between the two heads, so once you've fine-tuned the pitch you will need to revisit the bottom head to compensate for the changes you've made.

so... let's look at your snare problem. too much ring usually indicates the bottom head is too tight. so the first thing i would do is start winding down the bottom head. as with all head adjustments, assuming the head is already basically in tune with itself (this is reasonably important but not enormously so, certainly not as important as many people suggest) then make very gradual adjustments (1/16th turn) to each lug in turn. don't go for opposite lugs or star patterns or anything like that, just go around the drum in order, and play the drum after adjusting each lug. you will start to hear the tone change.

as with all tonal adjustments you will go through dead zones and sweet spots as the various resonances within the drum meet themselves in phase or in opposing phase. it's perfectly normal to start making tonal adjustments that immediately make the drum sound worse - but you keep going and a few more turns later the drum starts to sound better again, and keeps getting better! when this happens, keep going until it starts to sound worse again, then back up and try to find that spot where the tone is best.

if you find that dropping the bottom head just makes the drum sound consistently worse and worse, then go the other way, and gradually tighten it. setting the bottom head is all about experimentation, although it's generally easier with snares. on toms you may find that you go through several dead zones and minor sweet spots before you find a much more resonant sweet spot. YMMV.

also, you said that you changed heads recently, but didn't mention if the bottom head was changed as well. it's important to change both, especially on snare. while only the top head deals with the business end of the sticks, both heads vibrate in equal amounts when the drum is played. this fact is very important! ideally when changing heads, both heads should be changed together. as i am a struggling musician and recordist, and my drums are huge, new heads are expensive - i cannot afford to do this every time. i try to change bottom heads every other time i change top heads, and this seems to work for me. i'm about to change both floor tom heads, which usually costs me about ?50 ($70) and makes me jealous of guitar players

for the record - i play a 70s slingerland gene crupa COB 14x5.5 snare. i use a coated ambassador head on top (very thin). i use no mufflers, damping rings, moongel, etc. i also beat the living shit out of it. everything about this on paper screams "RING!" but that is not what happens, it's warm and punchy and powerful but does not suffer from unpleasant rings. i suspect this is as much down to my choice of snare as anything else, as it is the finest drum i've ever heard, but it's also easy to tune it badly and make it ring. and then try to counter that ring with mufflers and etc. i feel it is better to tune the drum correctly than to tune it poorly and fix it with stuff