Stupid question about M/S...

[plurgid]

No, I've got a mid mic. The whole setup is a stereo ribbon.

I just wanted to say, that before I read this thread, I had literally never heard of a stereo ribbon mic.

Sounds very interesting. Google doesn't find a whole lot about them, but I did find this:

http://www.cascademicrophones.com/cascade_X-15.html

This seems to be just be two matched ribbon microphones in a single assembly mounted at 90? to one another? Is that what you've got going on?

If so, I'm curious how this works in an M/S setup at all?
Normally you have the single ribbon mounted at a right angle to the mid mic ... you duplicate the single ribbon signal, invert one of the dupes and pan one hard right and one hard left with the mid mixed in the middle. The figure 8 pattern on the ribbon gets you the left & right differences.

So if you really have two figure 8 ribbons in the M/S configuration ... how is that working at all? I presume you have really three inputs (one from each ribbon mic and one from the mid mic?)

Sorry if I'm a confused noob. I dig on ribbon mics and M/S ... just trying to learn, gents [/u][/i]

[plurgid]

So if you really have two figure 8 ribbons in the M/S configuration ... how is that working at all? I presume you have really three inputs (one from each ribbon mic and one from the mid mic?)

Oh shit. I thought about it some more and now I think I get it.
You just pointed the stereo ribbon at the drums where one is directly facing and the other is perpendicular, I bet?

If so I totally get it now.
sorry 'bout that

[RoyMatthews]

So if you really have two figure 8 ribbons in the M/S configuration ... how is that working at all? I presume you have really three inputs (one from each ribbon mic and one from the mid mic?)

Oh shit. I thought about it some more and now I think I get it.
You just pointed the stereo ribbon at the drums where one is directly facing and the other is perpendicular, I bet?

If so I totally get it now.
sorry 'bout that

Yup. You can use any polar pattern for the mid signal.

In fact, if you were so inclined you could use 3 signals. The side mic will still need to be bidirectional. With that you could add two mid signals an omni and a bidirectional. Then in the mix by playing with the blend of the two mid signals you can create a new mid pattern in the mix.

+ =:cardioid:

To (hopefully) clarify you can just use the omni pattern and the side. Or bidirectional for the both mid and side. Blend the Mid omni and bi to create a mid cardioid pattern. Or reverse the polarity of the mid bi mic you create a rear facing cardioid for maximum ambience. Of course, you'll need to record three tracks now.

Am I making any sense or am I just making things more confusing?

[Danly]

turn that stereo ribbon 90 degrees. phase flips hurt my ears.

*professional opinion.

[RoyMatthews]

turn that stereo ribbon 90 degrees. phase flips hurt my ears.

*professional opinion.

That's stereo! At least, when summed with the mid signal.

[AndersonSoundRecording]

Interestingly though, in Alan Blumlein's original patent of the m/s technique he used an omni mic as the mid-mic.

I've had this out with a few people - not sure why this myth persists. He specifies two velocity microphones for Mid-Side in the patent (meaning figure-of-eight cosine pattern). Read it for yourself:

(53) (1) Two velocity microphones are placed one with its axis of maximum response directly facing in the direction of the centre of the scene, and the other with its axis at right angles to that direction. Both moving strips are in line, and arranged so that this line is vertical, whereas the sound source moves in a horizontal plane. A performer speaking from the middle of the scene will affect only the face-on microphone, but if he moves to one side both microphones will provide outputs, while if he moves the other way similar outputs are provided but the phase of the edge-on microphone is reversed. Since the microphones are close together no phase differences are experienced between them and if their outputs are summed and differenced after a suitable amount of relative amplification the two final channels differ in magnitude in the correct manner for operating the loudspeakers to give the desired directional effect.

He mentions pressure mic's (omni's) but not in the context of Mid-Side.