Buying a tape machine

[James B]

I'm toying with the idea of buying an 8 track (probably, track count is undecided). I'm thinking about investing in one to use as part of my masters' degree project so I could potentially spend a fair amount of cash as I could re-sell it at the end if it came to that.

Until now I've been fully DAW based so I have to admit to being fairly clueless yet a combination of curiosity, academic use and a number of local musicians suggesting that they'd be interested has got me thinking pretty seriously about it.

Where should I be looking? I'm suspicious of eBay and Gumtree but I can't really think of anywhere else. Are there any specialists out there selling serviced recorders with warranties (ideally UK based)?

Are any particular brands known to be particularly reliable/ easy to perform basic repairs on? What would be the minimum I should be thinking about spending here?

Of course I'm asking questions here before googling but I've got a feeling you guys might be the right people to ask.

Thanks.

[kslight]

It all depends I guess on where your setup is at right now gear-wise (do you already have a mixer, cabling, etc), how much you can spend, what format of tape you can afford to use, and obviously dumb luck. I'm sure there are people that sell refurbed decks in the UK, of course they will charge a premium over your local Craigslist find, but probably worth it if you don't want any surprises.

Expect to spend twice as much as you think you will need to. A tech fee just to go through a machine will probably be a few hundred bucks, assuming they find anything seriously wrong. Tape isn't cheap, either.

I personally find the Tascam 388 to be a fairly attractive machine for an entry level tape-enthusiast. If you can find one at a reasonable price (I paid $350 for both of mine, but these days they are often close to twice that), and in decent shape. They are fairly simple to work with and maintain. They are the cheapest reel to reel to run you will probably find, 8 track 1/4" at 7.5ips. So a 2" machine they are not, but what you get out of the deal is a self-contained unit (mixer and reel to reel), so that saves you a bundle in cabling and makes it fairly immediate and inspiring to use. 1/4" tape is readily available fairly inexpensively...either used or new (new reels are only about $25+shipping, obviously tape gets a lot more expensive the bigger it is), and being a 7.5ips machine you also get a lot of music on one reel. The sound quality isn't bad, its slightly on the lo-fi side, I love it. There are threads on the TOMB that will show its sound more, as its kind of a cult machine. Its a big Portastudio, really, but so much more.

I use the 388 as a "fun" machine, because obviously its not the cleanest sounding deck, and its fairly cheap to use so I can afford to experiment. And its always right there and hooked up (being self contained) so its an intuitive songwriting tool.

[Dakota]

kslight is right on - it's not just buying a deck, it's buying the whole rig necessary to make a deck useful at all. This will include an appropriate mixer, snakes, and at least a minimal rack of outboard gear with at least a minimal patchbay.

- and agreed, the 388 is a brilliant way to simplify the whole above equation. Only down side is that it's limited in fidelity to semi-lo-fi charm - but charm it is.

A solid step up from that, and very good bang-for-buck would be an Otari 1/2" format 8 track, and a solid mixer. Soundcraft, Soundtracs, Allen and Heath, something along those lines.

You'll definitely need one or more techs you trust and have a good relationship with.

And yes, buying from a reputable tech who has refurbed and is warrantying the tape deck... can be a very good idea. It's pretty classic nowadays for a recordist raised on digital to get the analog bug, but then get bogged down dealing with aging broken gear.

[James B]

As it would be at least partially for academic use I'd be installing it in a studio at the university alongside the Pro Tools and RADAR systems which would take care of the mixer/ cabling situation as well as a certain amount of the maintenance.

Though even in the short time since my original post the difficulties of doing so have started to dawn on me. It's a shame as I wanted to base a project on the differences between analogue and digital recording and they've only got digital systems now (as I've mentioned in other threads).

Still, a 388 for home use would be awesome.

[Dakota]

As it would be at least partially for academic use I'd be installing it in a studio at the university alongside the Pro Tools and RADAR systems which would take care of the mixer/ cabling situation as well as a certain amount of the maintenance.

Though even in the short time since my original post the difficulties of doing so have started to dawn on me. It's a shame as I wanted to base a project on the differences between analogue and digital recording and they've only got digital systems now (as I've mentioned in other threads).

Still, a 388 for home use would be awesome.

Sigh, that's totally the crux of it, James B - academic audio programs... in the current and foreseeable climate, bureaucrats are not going to be persuaded that tape & analog rigs are a justifiable expense in that context. So everyone comes up soaked in the the legends and listening love for the golden days of tape sound... but no one gets their learning hands on it any more.

It's like darkrooms and chemical process for photography. And hand making paper and using handset type. John Henry was a steel driving man.

[sam humans]

Finding a good machine is pure luck these days, as the best rule is never buy anything you cannot take a look at and test in person. It took me 2 years to find the right machine within driving distance (which for me meant a 20 hour drive) Also, heads are the machine, to that end a good deck is only worth what the heads are worth. Learn to identify good heads. www.analogrules.com has lots of good info on that and other aspects of purchasing and owning a tape machine.

Last, the economics of tape are swinging back around. I made this argument in the Recording Technics forum, but for high quality work, tape is no longer the most expensive option. In short, tape machines are not susceptible to planned obsolescence as are even the most expensive DAW based systems, they were designed to last forever. DAWS get replaced every 10 years. Maybe that will help you convince your colleagues in higher ed to invest in a quality tape machine!

As to which machine to buy... the one that's local. If they're still running and in good operational condition at this point in their lives, you're probably in good shape no matter what you end up finding.