Right time for an AC30?

[Frickety]

I'm interested in more experienced guitarist's opinions on whether I should splurge on a Vox AC30 with Alnico Blues, or whether I'm attaching too much importance to what this amp will do for me.

There! A brief and to the point sentence. Read on if you care.

I'm a competent keyboardist looking to become a songwriting/performing guitar player. I saved for a year to afford a Rickenbacker 360/12C63, and also have a few cheaper guitars - Epiphone Les Paul and Dot and Squire VM Jaguar. My only amp is a Crate VC508.

Many of my favorite musicians play through AC30s. An online seller sells the one with Alnico Blues for $1250; the best part is paying for it over 5 months, so it's doable financially. Sure, it's better to buy locally, but paying for this all at once isn't an option, and if there's a problem there's always the warranty...right?

But I wonder - will this help me become a better player? Would the cheaper Valvetronix line accomplish the same thing for now at a lower price and weight? Or would I regret buying a box of wood chips and glue that recreates umpteen amps?
How important is tone when you're learning what you're doing?
Thanks in advance.

[Marc Alan Goodman]

Instruments are the most important thing after the musicians. AC30's are amazing, though I don't know which version it is that you're talking about specifically.

[vvv]

Tough question.

Basically, it comes down to need, desire and $, of course.

My take onnit is that, while another amp may not be the "one" you think the AC could be for you, $1250 is a lot of dosh for a amp for anyone, experienced or not.

And it's pretty unique, for a mass-market amp.

Mebbe an easier question for you would be, "what do I need, at what price-point."

Was you asking for reco's, I would suggest:

1. used;

2. AC15, if you must have Vox (I, personally don't like digi-amps, altho' I note the S/S non-digi Vox Pathfinder at around US$100 is cool for recording);

3. something more along the lines of the Fender Pro, Jr. up through the Hot Rod series stuff, because it sounds good, is acceptably "prestigious", is much less expensive, is easy to obtain and has decent resale value.

I guess I'm mostly balking at the cost; I understand that the AC's sound pretty unique, but all things being average (that you are not a touring or studio musician that needs vs. wants that particular sound), I'd be looking more in the US$5-700 range, even for a small Boogie.

[Frickety]

Instruments are the most important thing after the musicians. AC30's are amazing, though I don't know which version it is that you're talking about specifically.

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-VOX-AC30C2-LIST

[kslight]

But I wonder - will this help me become a better player?

No. I mean, the player having fun while learning is certainly important to the process I think, but most players have likely learned on less.


$1250 is a lot of money to me, even if you can spread it over 5 months...I would think you can get the same amp or a similarly great amp for less than half that on Craigslist. The advantage being that if you decide its not the amp for you, or give up playing you will not lose your ass when you sell. I'd be less concerned about a warranty, most decent amps will not have issues if taken care of and properly maintained. Tube models are relatively easy to troubleshoot and service (and to find someone locally to service!).


For example, I bought a 59 Bassman RI used for $400 on CL a few years ago. That is a pretty nice amp (as I've been told by many that have used it, and I quite enjoy it myself). Sure I had to put maybe $150 in it, between new tubes, 1 new speaker, and my tech...but that's still a fraction of $1250. Roland JC120s (though not tube) can be found all day long for like $350...and that is a very nice amp as well IMHO.


I'd be less inclined to get a modeling box...mainly because I haven't encountered any that don't sound awful in my price range. Unless you need the ability to practice with headphones...I'd avoid them.

[hogfish]

Do you plan to use the amp for gigs? They are HEAVY, and bulky. They also have issues with heat. They are classic amps with a classic sound, they are LOUD. More suited to mid size bars and venues. The amp wont make you a better player, it MIGHT make you want to play more, playing more = improving as a player. I would try an AC 15, not the Valvetronix. AC 15 will get you 90 percent of the way to where you want to go. Without the bulk and weight.......

[fossiltooth]

I'm interested in more experienced guitarist's opinions on whether I should splurge on a Vox AC30 with Alnico Blues,

Yes. Anytime is a good time for pie... er, um I mean an AC30. Seriously, yes, if that money is burning a whole in your pocket and you know that's what you want, then definitely. They are great amps.

or whether I'm attaching too much importance to what this amp will do for me.

Oh yes. Yes, you probably most definitely are. We all do. SO much of the time.

If the money is not burning a whole in your pocket, then don't get it. You can play great stuff without it. Write great music without it. Make great sounding records without it. Even use a real AC30 on your own records without owning one.

Also: Have you ever considered some smaller, less expensive EL84 type amps?

Not that it's remotely the same thing, but I love me some blues and pro junior. There are a lot of other little options in that general family as well that are just killer.

I love small EL84 amps. To be honest, I record with them much more often than a big ol' Vox AC30.

Anyway, if you've got the cash and know that's the amp for you, then sure. Doubtful that you'd regret it if you can justify the expense. Doubtful that you wouldn't regret it if you can't.

That simple, I think.

[The Real MC]

(3rd time I had to write this - power failure during 1st time, 2nd time typed everything but forgot to login!!!)

I'm a keyboard player who learned guitar as a 2nd instrument.

I also grew up with a brother who played guitar.

I didn't know it at the time but between him and the other guitarists I had worked with, my ears were picking up the intricate details of the amps they were using - AC15s, Marshalls, Fenders, Boogies, et al.

When I was ready to play guitar onstage I did not want the loud volume of an amp or have double the amps/speakers to haul around. So I decided on the Vox Tonelab SE pedal:

http://www.retrosynth.com/~analoguedieh ... index.html

The SE hasn't been made in years but can be easily found for a lot less $$$ than a new AC15. I can play it through my keyboard monitor and only have to haul one monitor system.

Don't bother with the factory presets, they are tailored to appeal to teenage wankers at Guitar Center stores. I prefer the old school sounds, I rolled my own patches and dialed up pretty good replicas of the amps. Many guitarists are surprised when they look to see what I am playing through.

The newer Tonelab pedals aren't as flexible as the SE but they sound a lot better than the Valvetronix amps being made today.

[norton]

I love an ac30. And they are pretty special with the blue speakers.

That being said they are loud and sound best wound up a bit. Luckily, there are a ton of ac 15 inspired amps opinion the world that would allow you to get that kind of sound without being crazy loud.

For me a Rick and an ac30 with blues would be really bright.

If you get a chance, check into the amps with the ef86 in the preamp section. I know korg was making vox's with the ef86 for a while.....but there are a ton of options in that tonal world.

[Nick Sevilla]

I'm a competent keyboardist looking to become a songwriting/performing guitar player.

Hi,
You should think as though you were a new student. Because you are.
Would a new student of guitar buy that amplifier? No.
So why would you?
What if you hate this new incarnation of yourself?
If you will be playing Electric guitar, then buy an inexpensive option, like a 15 watt or even smaller amplifier.

I say don't buy that amp. You can't even afford it unless you go into more debt to do so. And you are going on your flawed memory of what your favorite musicians sound like. If on a recording, you have NO idea what was actually used to make those tones, plus they were EQd and treated during mixing, making those tones sound different than a straight up plugged in AC30 live in your room. It will not sound the same.

Finally, you mention having a Crate VC508. I have one, the original model. "From my cold dead hands" is how someone else will take that from me. The store who sold it to me used, called two weeks later offering more money to buy it back. Does that say anything to you?

Cheers

[terryb]

If you want that vox tone, go ac15. It's more than loud enough to keep up with most drummers. I've got one and love it. Ac30 is overkill for most stuff in my opinion.
Ac15 pop up on portlnd cigslist all the time for roughly $400.

[jgimbel]

The guitar player in the band I currently play with uses an AC15 (September Call-Up - you can hear the amp on the promo we finished a month ago - https://soundcloud.com/christianbittomu ... s/lp-promo - it's on all electric guitars, which was an American Tele on these tracks). We've talked about AC30s, and can't imagine what situation we'd need an amp louder than the AC15. Even at decent-sized shows the amp is far from cranked - very far - if it were for shows bigger than that then there is even less of a chance of not being miced up than we have now. Granted they're not the same amp, but still. The idea of buying an amp that powerful without having the specific purpose of for some reason needing to play LOUD yet unmiced for a massive crowd seems silly to me. Even AC15s are heavy too, far heavier than my Deluxe Reverb. Get something that sounds great and you enjoy playing through but isn't a little silly to own except for a specific purpose you're not in.

[AnalogAnxiety]

While AC30's sound great, I wouldn't spend that much on one if you're just getting started. There are plenty of great sounding amps for half the price (or less) out there. There's even a used AC30 with Wharfedale speakers on CL here in town for $650 at the moment. Look into used '60s Ampeg's (Geminis, Reverberockets, Jets, etc) or '60s-'70s Fenders(Twins, Devilles, Bassmans,etc), or even some of the used recent reissues of those, which are all great sounding amps that are significantly less than a new AC30. Even some of the old Musicmans sound great. And Portland has some great amp techs, so maybe you can find a score on an older amp that needs some TLC and get sounding great for a reasonable price). I'd also mention that if you find something on CL or at one of the local shops like Trade Up or Old Town, you can bring your guitar and play it though the amps to see how they'll actually sound together, as opposed to buying online and hoping that they'll sound great together.

[vvv]

Even some of the old Musicmans sound great.

I have a HD130 head. Played into a 2x12" Celestion open-back cab, it is the best Twin sound I ever got. What isn't Vox, but is just so damn good ...

[GooberNumber9]

The Vox AC30 is a great amp, and if nothing else, playing through one would give you a better appreciation for quality guitar tone. But the AC30 is expensive, heavy, and not as easy to use (IMHO) as you might want. I have and like the Vox Tonelab SE as recommended above, but I feel like the digital modelling amps do not give you the feel that a real tube amp does.

How much does that feel matter? As a longtime guitarist and guitar teacher, it matters a lot to me. I believe every guitarist should have a low-wattage 1x12 all-tube amp in their first five years. Get a decent one, and you may keep it for life and always have as a tonal option. In your case, you can run electric pianos and clavinets through an amp like that and get some great sounds also.

I'm +1-ing the AC15 recommendation. It's cheaper, lighter, and easier to use than the AC30. You can get great sounds at lower volumes for practice, and it just feels really good to play.

In terms of whether this will make you a better player: Maybe in a roundabout (yeah, we're all hearing that bass line in our heads now, you're welcome) way. If you like the feel and the sound of what you're doing, you're more likely to do it more. Practice is the only thing at all that will make you a better player. Some learning of technique and music theory helps, but it's all for nothing without practice. So if having an amp that speaks to you helps you enjoy practice and so you practice more, then you have some benefit to your learning.

From that point of view, you might take your guitar to a store with lots of amps and just go around and plug into them and embarass yourself with your newbie playing but also get a feel for what you like. When you find the one that speaks to you, you won't have to ask anyone if it's the right one for you, you'll just have to check to see if you can afford it.