Creative uses for MS-decoders?

[georgeludwig]

This may seem trivial to the more experienced mixers out there, but yesterday I had a small epiphany. I've got a Demeter RealVerb spring reverb, and although I liked the idea of a short verb on one channel and long verb on the other channel, I was never happy with the stereo imaging. Typically I ran the two in parallel just to get an even/mono output.

So yesterday for some reason it occurs to me that I could put a MS decoder on the reverb return, thus moving the short verb in to the center, and the long verb to the sides. It works great for lead guitar or vox, where you want ambience that's not too cluttered. Mind=blown.

So I started thinking...what other creative opportunities are there to use an MS decoder on material that was never encoded in the first place?

[Zygomorph]

When I play around with MS in mixing, I typically encode a LR signal to MS, then treat the mid and side separately (eq compression, effects, whatever!), recombining to LR when I'm through.

Mastering engineers will sometimes use these techniques, but in less-than-subtle hands, it can totally wrangle a mix and make the mix engineer very unhappy.

PS that's a super-clever technique. You could probably get some interesting results decoding near and far mics likes. I also used to record guitar amps with totally misaligned MS setups in order to get a super incoherent stereo wash as-needed, good for tucking crrrrrrazy butt-rock solos out of the way.

[telepathy]

that is a KILLER idea for the Demeter reverb! I've got one of those, and have also been aggravated by the output setup.

what decoders are you guys using?

[Marc Alan Goodman]

Limit the crap out of the middle and leave the sides nice an dynamic. Or alternately leave the center image alone and make the sides pump like crazy. MS and dynamics are really a wonderful combination. Verbs and delays can be fun for a trick though, especially when you're looking to make completely impossible spaces.

[cgarges]

I used an Avenson MS matrix last year on some tracks I got to mix. There was a stereo electronic drumkit signal (no individual drums) with the kick and snare centered and quieter than everything else panned across the stereo spectrum. I patched in the Avenson, made the drums MS, brought down the sides, compressed the middle for some aggressive attack, converted it back to left/right, and totally made the kit sound more balanced and appropriate. I can't think of another way I could have done that.

I actually had Brad Avenson send me his MS box specifically for that mix, but I'm keeping it. The routing options on that box are terrific and the box sounds good. I also have an Electrical Audio MS Matrix that I've had for a few years (I was actually the first person to ever request that they build me one) and I really love that box. It only decodes, though, and the ability to turn a L/R signal into M/S and back makes Brad's box worth keeping.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[georgeludwig]

@telepathy: My MS decoder is the Waves MS Matrix plugin...sorry, I'm a DAW guy.