uh oh, I think I like "overcompression"...

[sabin333]

So I've had lots of people tell me things like "don't overcompress the vocals" and "try to use gain automation before the compressor so that you don't make the compressor work too hard." All of these things have made scared to really push a compressor. I've always used its very liberally.

However, I decided to fiddle with a track where the vocals sound weak and I was shocked to discover that i really like the vocals once I crank the compressor. Ratio is 7:1, the threshold is very low, and the attack is 4ms. I'm getting anywhere between 3 and 10 dB of gain reduction. Normally, I only ever allow the compressor to get to like 3-5 dB of reduction. Are more settings like the 7:1 ratio to be discouraged on vocals?

I apologize for the noob question, but I've never taken any tracks to a mastering engineer before, and I'm nervous that if I "overcompress" the vocals now, then the mastering engineer won't have much room to do any dynamic range processing without making things sound too effected. On the other hand though, I don't want to be afraid to use a useful tool when it might be the right effect.

[Snarl 12/8]

TOMB stock answer number 1: If it sounds good it is good.
TOMB stock answer number 2: It depends.
TOMB stock answer number 3: Good monitors.
TOMB stock answer number 4: Room treatment.

In all [quasi] seriousness, I've never sent anything to an ME, but my understanding is that they can't really squash just the vocal for you if you're sending them a whole mix. Also, you don't really want to mix with the idea that the ME is really going to make it come together. Ideally, I think you want the ME to go, "Wow, you fucking nailed these mixes. I don't have to do jack shit to this one." In reality, even with mix like that, they'll probably add 0.1db of high shelf at 10k just so they can say they mastered it. But why leave something to chance (I.E. the ME) that you can handle for yourself. And if you want the vocals smashed differently than the rest of the mix, you're going to have to do it yourself.

But if it was me (and I'm guessing I'm a shitload older than you) I'd A/B the fuck out of those compressor settings to make sure it really is "better." Compression can be a bit like salt or something, at first you're like "Mmmm, that's some tasty shit." and then after a few minutes of it you're like. "Man, that's shit." Like reverb, or any new toy, it's human nature to abuse it at first, but you don't want to look back with regret on your "heavy compression phase." Y'know?

[MoreSpaceEcho]

In reality, even with mix like that, they'll probably add 0.1db of high shelf at 10k just so they can say they mastered it.

c'mon now.

nothing wrong with loads of compression on vocals. if it sounds good to you then it's fine. just watch the sibilants. please, i beg you, watch the sibilants. put a de-esser after the comp if you need to tame them.

as far as mastering's concerned, peaky vocals are more problematic than overcompressed ones...

[drumsound]

You should be sending the mastering engineer a mix that sounds the way you want it to sound. They should just be adding that last 5-10%, not "remixing with EQ and compression." I compress the shit out of vocals most of the time.

[GooberNumber9]

If you have a hard time finding a "famous" example of "over" compression that sounds good (and I'm sure there are many more beyond this), the track "Stadium Love" on the Metric album "Fantasies" has the kick and snare pumping the bejeezus out of the overheads/hat and it sounds pretty awesome. I'm sure there's an Alanis Morissette song or 20 where the vocals are really squashed and her breathing gets brought out front.

TOMB Stock answer number 1 (originally from some famous engineer/producer I can't remember right now) is really all you need to know.

[Nick Sevilla]

HI,

Nothing wrong with liking overcompression.

Context is the key here. The reason you read here and in other forums about being careful etc, etc, etc, is that in the wrong context, ie the wrong type of music style, the wrong song, etc, then overcompression is truly a Mary Shelley horror novel.

For example, I was once called in to mix an album of very different music styles for a singer. Her producer, although famous and knowledgeable, had hired a very inexperienced engineer to handle the recording process, all in an effort to save money during production.

This engineer had only limited experience recording, and it was mostly "hip hop" which is a traditionally overcompressed vocal sound. He had never ever experienced the range of styles as with this album. And this is a common thing with artists who are starting out, as they find both their voice and their audience.

In a couple of songs his recording style had worked well, for those songs were urban hip hop style, so the vocal treatment was appropriate. HOWEVER, when it came to jazz standards and pop, which were the bulk of the album, this same style of overcompressed vocal, was completely wrong for those styles.

Now for the fun part, and why most of us with experience keep telling newer engineers to be careful :

1.- The vocals had been recorded with the compression like this for the entire album, and there were NO flat recordings of the singers voice to be found. In other words, this was all there was to be.

2.- The singer had been tortured over many months to produce these vocals, and refused to sing a single note more. It was simply out of the question.

3.- The producer, while experienced, had completely not known that "that sound" was THE sound committed to. there was a lack of communication between him and the engineer about this, to the detriment of this project.

4.- The engineer who did this simply had no idea that this sort of heavy handed compression is not used on other music styles. REALLY?!? Had he never heard other music styles, or paid attention at his "recording school"?

To end this lovely story, the album never saw the light of day. The singer was brought to tears when she was told that her lovely jazz song would have to have THAT SOUND on her vocals, because of a rookie engineering mistake.
I did not mix it, and who knows what happened.

So, in the interest of expediency : ALWAYS record a flat vocal take, just in case you are not sure the vocal treatment is the best one, OR if another engineer may be called in to do the mix.

Cheers

[MoreSpaceEcho]

yeah, i had to mix some stuff where the vocals had been recorded with way too much compression, they sounded really unnatural and inappropriate for the style. fortunately the artist was a friend and not opposed to redoing the vox, so we redid 'em here. but his performances on the original vox were fine, it was just the compression that made them unusable.

[sabin333]

This is all really great stuff. I'm listening to this Metric "Stadium Love" track right now, and its clear that there's almost no dynamic range left in her vocals. But do I care? Not really.

Thanks for the support guys! I guess what I'm going to do is have some songs on the record where I have nice dynamic vocals, and other songs where the vocals are nice and squashed. It'll all depend on the song choice. I'm glad to hear that I'm not crazy (well at least in regards to this topic, haha).

[Bro Shark]

If you like that, try reamping them through a Marshall.

[sabin333]

Yea, sometimes I send my vocals to a bus that has a virtual amp and then mix that in liberally. But I guess that's another topic altogether, haha.

[KennyLusk]

But if it was me (and I'm guessing I'm a shitload older than you) I'd A/B the fuck out of those compressor settings to make sure it really is "better." Compression can be a bit like salt or something, at first you're like "Mmmm, that's some tasty shit." and then after a few minutes of it you're like. "Man, that's shit." Like reverb, or any new toy, it's human nature to abuse it at first, but you don't want to look back with regret on your "heavy compression phase." Y'know?

^^^^^^^
This

I love overcompressing just as much as the next vato, but there have been times when I've A/B'd before making my final decision and decided it was an unnecessary effect and stuck with the original track uncompressed/unaffected.

[fossiltooth]

Many, if not most of your favorite records often use way more compression than you're "supposed" to use.

Do what sounds good to you. If you're just starting out, I can't promise you'll have great judgements about how to get to a place where things sound good to you, but that's really all there is to it.

Follow your ears and check your biases, and you can really do a lot. Some trustworthy equipment and a good environment really help, too.

Then: listen. A lot. To a lot of different stuff. Experiment constantly, and listen to that too. Good luck!

[mwerden]

Whenever I encounter a new piece of gear the first thing I do is test the limits. With a compressor I just start cranking parameters - what does it sound like when you starve the input and crank the output? How does it sound with the fastest attack time and 20db of reduction? How about if it's just tickling the reduction to glue together a mix? Once you start hearing what all those scenarios sound like you can make more informed creative choices.

[KennyLusk]

Many, if not most of your favorite records often use way more compression than you're "supposed" to use.

Fossiltooth, I know you know what you're talking about and could you give a few examples/releases I can refer to and have a listen for study?

[fossiltooth]

Many, if not most of your favorite records often use way more compression than you're "supposed" to use.

Fossiltooth, I know you know what you're talking about and could you give a few examples/releases I can refer to and have a listen for study?

It's tricky, 'cause I don't necessarily know what you like! But: Anything that Dave Fridmann has done (Flaming Lips comes to mind). Anything that Peter Katis has done. A lot of Led Zeppelin and Beatles, especially on rhythm sections. (See: when the "Levee Breaks," "She Said, She Said"). Vocals on a lot of indie pop-rock stuff. Vocals on a lot of mainstream pop records. Broadcast. Blonde Redhead. Broken Social Scene. Kanye West. Kelly Clarkson and Justin Beiber. (Not advocating. Just sayin'.)

TONS of records use a lot of compression. "Too much" even. Some use less. Alan Parsons reportedly hated the sound compression on drums. So he says there's no drum compression on Dark Side of the Moon (Although, I'd be surprised if the engineer didn't sneak a little bit in, at least through the mix bus, if not elsewhere.)

Bruce Swedien says he hates compressions. Perhaps easy for him to say, because so much of the sounds on Thriller essentially came pre-compressed.

This is one of those places where there are no rules. If you're trying to make something that sounds like Daft Punk or Skrillex or Major Lazer and you don't use heaps of compressions and limiting, you're doing it wrong. If you're squashing a Toscanini symphony, you're probably doing that wrong too.

(Although, now that I think of it, Toscanini's orchestra for NBC in the 40s got squashed to death over the AM radio, where it was broadcast. Maybe that's why his conducting sounds so overly dynamic on records -- to compensate for the heavy limiting of broadcast. The "loudness war" is not new.)