Listening example: dry, small, and gorgeous

RoyMatthews · Post by **RoyMatthews** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:01 pm

losthighway wrote:
drumsound wrote:(and it those hats didn't sound like such shit)
They remind me of those really dark, thick, hand-hammered hats I see at the drum store and can't afford. They make almost a different sound than any other hi hat, way less sizzle.

I like the hi-hats.

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:14 pm

RoyMatthews wrote:
losthighway wrote:
drumsound wrote:(and it those hats didn't sound like such shit)
They remind me of those really dark, thick, hand-hammered hats I see at the drum store and can't afford. They make almost a different sound than any other hi hat, way less sizzle.
I like the hi-hats.

We obviously can't be friends!

(I'm totally kidding--you are a much respected member of the board)

jgimbel · Post by **jgimbel** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:11 pm

Here's a screenshot of the spot in the video losthighway mentioned:

jgimbel · Post by **jgimbel** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:17 pm

Another angle, you can make out the front of the D112 on kick:

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:37 pm

Yea, d112 on BD, 441 on SD, R121 and U67 on overs.

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:22 am

I gotta wonder how much of that set-up was actual afore-thought and how much serendipity?

(BTW, that video link could be a ad for the SM7b on vox!)

losthighway · Post by **losthighway** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:26 am

Most of it seems pretty common sense with the exception of the weird placement of the U67. I can't imagine the situation where I would decide to put it in that particular spot, facing in that direction.

I read an article in some audio magazine about Wilco's "The Whole Love" album that Schick also engineered. He was saying how Tweedy heard a cmv563 on his acoustic and was so thrilled he bought one so he could always record his guitar through one. I wouldn't be surprised if that continues on the acoustic tracks on the Mavis record.

RoyMatthews · Post by **RoyMatthews** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:33 am

I happened upon a MixOnline article. It's about a previous album but there seem to be a bunch of similarities. It's not very in-depth but I like reading about sessions.

http://mixonline.com/recording/tracking/mavis_staples/

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:31 am

how old is that drummer? 14?

RoyMatthews · Post by **RoyMatthews** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:36 am

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:how old is that drummer? 14?

I'd figure he was 16 at the time of the recording.

Nick Sevilla · Post by **Nick Sevilla** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:06 am

losthighway wrote:I've been digging the stuff Jeff Tweedy has been producing in the Wilco loft with engineer Tom Schick. They are starting to stump my engineer skills by comparison (rightfully so with a couple of pro's).

(SNIP)

I guess this is fascinating to me because the majority of the time I'm working with people they're going for *big*. I'm not so well versed in doing a great job of sounding small. If I recorded/mixed a kit like that, everyone (including me) would say 'those drums don't sound very good', but the way they come across here they're perfect.

Hi,

You just have to remember the Cardinal Rule of Bigness :

It is an ILLUSION.

In order to have BIGNESS in a song, you have to have something SMALL to compare it with. It can be anything, but it has to be there, so that there is a reference for the human brain to know what is big and what is small.

In this song, it is a beautiful and simple arrangement which has a lot of "Space" enveloping it. This artificial space is what makes it sound so BIG.

An excellent example of why silence between notes is just as important as the notes themselves.

All those artists who want "BIG" without the "small" just do not understand this. It is your job as engineer to make it so. Sometimes without the explicit knowledge of the artist. The "magic" that you impart to their art and makes them come back for more.

Cheers

Danly · Post by **Danly** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:49 pm

just a guess, but.
it sounds like the 121 is possibly hard right panned and key'ed off the 441.
Like that David Bowie vocal thing where the room mics open up as he gets louder.

Danly · Post by **Danly** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:30 pm

or maybe the guitar mic on the right was figure 8 and picked up some drums that way?

KennyLusk · Post by **KennyLusk** » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:04 am

I love this mix (and of course the performance).

I've tried a few times recently to making a recording that's hard panned like this one but found myself afraid to take it all the way. Afraid that it will sound too small, and concerned about some people not digging the mix because it's not a full stereo mix. I mean, c'mon, drums panned hard left?...what is that?..., right? I love the way they did this though. It's fantastic.

This just proves to me that I need to revisit the concept and stick to my guns and listen to the results.

Great post LH, and awesome posts in response. I always love it when Tony chimes in about drums.

GussyLoveridge · Post by **GussyLoveridge** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:09 pm

I like it.

I don't want all mixes to be drums, bass and lead vocal in the middle. I get bored with that scenario. It sounds right sometimes, but I do find it exciting and in a non-gimmicky way when things are done differently.

I love the snare sound on Damn the Torpedoes, but I don't want all the snares to sound like that.

Sometimes you have to step away from listening to song from an engineer/producers head space and just listen and take it it. I like to pretend sometimes that I'm just in that room - and maybe listening with the singer to my right and the drums on my left or whatever. Know what I mean?

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Listening example: dry, small, and gorgeous

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