Classic Bass Guitar Sounds
bass
My recording amp now for many years is a 66 fender bassman head that's been modified by the late great John Martin of Philadelphia. He took channel 1 and re wired the circuit to Ampeg B-15. And I go through an original Ampeg B-15 bottom...but lately I switched to a David Eden bottom. Also use a custom built Matrix Audio systems DI with vintage Jensen transformers. The bass goes into Telefunken V76/80 tube pre and then Gates sa39 [not the B] or dbx 160VU.
Oh yes it's a 1972 P bass. I've been obsessed with bass sounds for years and am now pretty damn happy with the results.
Been doing a lot of sessions with John Regan [Frampton/Rolling Stones/Bowie/Frehley/Trower etc] and he puts a piece of foam under the strings at the bridge most times. His 60's P-bass got wrecked in the recent Nashville floods but with a bit of work and some pickup rewinding it's back in action and is one of the best P-basses I've ever heard.
Oh yes it's a 1972 P bass. I've been obsessed with bass sounds for years and am now pretty damn happy with the results.
Been doing a lot of sessions with John Regan [Frampton/Rolling Stones/Bowie/Frehley/Trower etc] and he puts a piece of foam under the strings at the bridge most times. His 60's P-bass got wrecked in the recent Nashville floods but with a bit of work and some pickup rewinding it's back in action and is one of the best P-basses I've ever heard.
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I can get a great tone through Acoustic 450 heads and a 406 (2x15) "long throw" cab. Fender Jazz with flats and a pick, though I'd love to try a Ric. For Sgt. Pepper-esque sounds I find that Thomastik Infeld strings are the best. I've tried Pyramid, Rotosound, and D'Addario, but the TI jazz flats are perfect. Expensive but the best.
Foam muting is unnecessary because you can use your palm. Don't underestimate how much of the tone is in the fingers and the player's style. I've had perfect tone before, then a bandmate hops on bass, doesn't touch a single setting, and still, all the magic goes away. You have to articulate just so -- and know when and how much to let each note decay or ring out.
All in all, the way to the best bass tone is: good taste and lots of practice. Anyone with a few bucks can buy some gear -- but money can't buy talent.
Foam muting is unnecessary because you can use your palm. Don't underestimate how much of the tone is in the fingers and the player's style. I've had perfect tone before, then a bandmate hops on bass, doesn't touch a single setting, and still, all the magic goes away. You have to articulate just so -- and know when and how much to let each note decay or ring out.
All in all, the way to the best bass tone is: good taste and lots of practice. Anyone with a few bucks can buy some gear -- but money can't buy talent.
- GussyLoveridge
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And not to get too fussy, but '50s stuff might very well be upright, not Fender.roscoenyc wrote:If you are listening to recordings from the 50's most of them didn't even have a microphone on the bass amp. Most times it was shared with another instrument (drums or piano)
Electric bass guitar didn't really become widespread til the 60s; even jamerson's early Motown hits were reportedly cut with an upright.
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That's Joe Osborn, and not Carole, to these ears...bparker12321 wrote:here is a link for all of you unfamilliar with the song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajwnmkEqYpo
Same recipe though--picked Fender P-Bass though a Super, or the like...
Great playing and sound...
Listen to him on all those Fifth Dimension hits--he's really driving things.
"You see, the whole thing about recording is the attempt at verisimilitude--not truth, but the appearance of truth."
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oil can! what's up dude!oil_can wrote:Epi Valve Jr. head into Aguilar GS112 is great recording combo
i was getting a pretty cool bass tone the other day taking an ibanez bass (rounds --- flats soon) (unsure of model #) into an ampeg ba115 line out into a dbx 576 line input, tapped by the compressor, then inserted into a dbx 163 comp for a bit of juice, and then into the mic input of an ART tube channel with the tiniest bit of juice in the pre and then returned the insert.. sounded pretty nice, believe it or not
lately, to get a nice fat vintage sound, I've been using a G&L SB-1, with the tone backed off about 20-30%, through a Ampeg B15-R, put an Audix D4 mic on that cab, centered, about 10 inches out, and straight to tape.
I push the amp to just about the breakup point.
I've been using the DI from the same amp as a backup, as it sounds really good, but I have found that I don't really need it once I put the D4 track in the mix. The D4 really shines on this application.
This sound fits right in with clean Fender sounding guitars & a Hammond organ.
I push the amp to just about the breakup point.
I've been using the DI from the same amp as a backup, as it sounds really good, but I have found that I don't really need it once I put the D4 track in the mix. The D4 really shines on this application.
This sound fits right in with clean Fender sounding guitars & a Hammond organ.
losthighway wrote:Is this the right thread to bring up how amazing the bass tone is on the Beatles "Rain" single? Kind of a different sound than the wrecking crew stuff, way more sustain, but man.... best bass tone ever?
honkyjonk wrote:Yep, Rain and Paperback Writer I think were the white elephant speaker. RAD sound. Wow. I bet they had to roll some lows off though.
And of course the entire backing track was mixed down or bounced at a slightly slower speed. That surely made a huge difference in the tone/sustain of that awesome bassline.telepathy wrote:the "Rain" bass is also compressed to hell. that's probably the EMI-modded Altec.
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First time poster, long time reader. As an introduction, let me just say that I am a bass player and audio engineer who has dedicated much of the past several years to demystifying that group of studio musicians known as the Wrecking Crew, of which Miss Kaye was a charter member.
So I want to add my two cents as this is right up my alley.
Although the Mammas and Pappas were backed by the Wrecking Crew for nearly all of their tracks, Mamma Cass's "Dream a Little Dream of Me" was not. It was an outside session of hers, so although that specific song does not feature Carole, her name has been brought up in this thread and I will clarify a few things.
One of the key elements of the Wrecking Crew that is often misunderstood is the bass. Many people, see the posters above, assume its usually Carole with a pick on a foamed up P-bass and are disappointed when they attempt this and don't get the results they were expecting.
The reason is because for most Wrecking Crew sessions, there were three bass players playing simultaneously. They are such proficient and acquainted musicians that the bass comes out sounding like one mega-bass instrument. This is something that completely goes over the heads of modern musicians, or at least, the ones that come into my room. Tracking three basses is a lost art and something that simply isn't done anymore because most often, you don't have players good enough to pull it off.
The three basses were, in colloquial Wrecking Crew terms, a string bass, a Fender bass, and lastly and most important, what they call the Danelectro bass. The string bass covered the roundness and the ultra bottom, the Fender (P-bass) the meat of the sound, with the Dano bass providing that trademark clarity and note definition of the era. The Danelectro bass is what went on to become called a baritone guitar in later years, but in the Wrecking Crew days, it was a 30 inch scale Dano tuned down a full octave from a standard guitar. It is strung up with strings that were equidistant in gauge between a regular guitar and a Fender bass. ie, .084 to.024 or thereabouts.
For an example of the triple bass sound, understand that Brian Wilson used three basses on almost all Beach Boys sessions. It was his preferred sound and he used it religiously. For other examples.... well jeeze, there are so many! Glen Campbell's stuff from the era (obviously Wichita Linemen in which Glen borrowed Carole's Dano for the lead), Dean Martin's stuff of the era (the track Houston comes to mind), The Cowsill's The Rain, the Park and Other Things,and on the Beach Boy's Dance Dance Dance this technique is really noticeable.
Anyways, that was super long so probably no one is still reading, but that's the rub. I have restored a 98-01 Danelectro Baritone 30" scale with the correct strings and it kills the sound when on top of a P-bass. It's just that classic tone instantly, although it takes some practice to nail the technique. I normally don't track all three basses, just a P-bass with a Danelectro bass on top, played so closely together than you can't tell they are two individual instruments. But once you have the Dano on there, it is instantly recognizable as 'the sound'.
So in other words, you won't get the sound until you have the right instruments and recording technique!
Cheers!
So I want to add my two cents as this is right up my alley.
Although the Mammas and Pappas were backed by the Wrecking Crew for nearly all of their tracks, Mamma Cass's "Dream a Little Dream of Me" was not. It was an outside session of hers, so although that specific song does not feature Carole, her name has been brought up in this thread and I will clarify a few things.
One of the key elements of the Wrecking Crew that is often misunderstood is the bass. Many people, see the posters above, assume its usually Carole with a pick on a foamed up P-bass and are disappointed when they attempt this and don't get the results they were expecting.
The reason is because for most Wrecking Crew sessions, there were three bass players playing simultaneously. They are such proficient and acquainted musicians that the bass comes out sounding like one mega-bass instrument. This is something that completely goes over the heads of modern musicians, or at least, the ones that come into my room. Tracking three basses is a lost art and something that simply isn't done anymore because most often, you don't have players good enough to pull it off.
The three basses were, in colloquial Wrecking Crew terms, a string bass, a Fender bass, and lastly and most important, what they call the Danelectro bass. The string bass covered the roundness and the ultra bottom, the Fender (P-bass) the meat of the sound, with the Dano bass providing that trademark clarity and note definition of the era. The Danelectro bass is what went on to become called a baritone guitar in later years, but in the Wrecking Crew days, it was a 30 inch scale Dano tuned down a full octave from a standard guitar. It is strung up with strings that were equidistant in gauge between a regular guitar and a Fender bass. ie, .084 to.024 or thereabouts.
For an example of the triple bass sound, understand that Brian Wilson used three basses on almost all Beach Boys sessions. It was his preferred sound and he used it religiously. For other examples.... well jeeze, there are so many! Glen Campbell's stuff from the era (obviously Wichita Linemen in which Glen borrowed Carole's Dano for the lead), Dean Martin's stuff of the era (the track Houston comes to mind), The Cowsill's The Rain, the Park and Other Things,and on the Beach Boy's Dance Dance Dance this technique is really noticeable.
Anyways, that was super long so probably no one is still reading, but that's the rub. I have restored a 98-01 Danelectro Baritone 30" scale with the correct strings and it kills the sound when on top of a P-bass. It's just that classic tone instantly, although it takes some practice to nail the technique. I normally don't track all three basses, just a P-bass with a Danelectro bass on top, played so closely together than you can't tell they are two individual instruments. But once you have the Dano on there, it is instantly recognizable as 'the sound'.
So in other words, you won't get the sound until you have the right instruments and recording technique!
Cheers!
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Fascinating post, Wrecking Matthew. Definitely something I haven't heard before, I'd love to give that sound a try sometime.
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Since someone else went slightly off-topic with the Beatles, I feel the door has been opened your honor...
I play bass and love a lot of different tones on recordings. I'm prepared to take some stick for this: one that has lasted for me is Shellac. I love it. Bright, grindy... I lack the words. Ironically, and I think I posted about this one, the other is on the Sigur Ros song Glosoli on the record Takk. It is so wooden (in a good way), sounds like the earth.
I have a G&L L2000 and a cheapy SX jazz with round wounds. Perhaps not surprisingly, the G&L gets me closer to Shellac and the SX to the Sigur Ros sound. I record direct, through a sans amp bass di, but with very little mucking around with its controls.
Anywho... it's funny how vexing bass can be to record. A comment above about not fearing the mid-range is, I think, right on. I also do the dampening thing with foam, but I'm of two minds on that. Why can't a low note ring? It sounds good in the room.
I play bass and love a lot of different tones on recordings. I'm prepared to take some stick for this: one that has lasted for me is Shellac. I love it. Bright, grindy... I lack the words. Ironically, and I think I posted about this one, the other is on the Sigur Ros song Glosoli on the record Takk. It is so wooden (in a good way), sounds like the earth.
I have a G&L L2000 and a cheapy SX jazz with round wounds. Perhaps not surprisingly, the G&L gets me closer to Shellac and the SX to the Sigur Ros sound. I record direct, through a sans amp bass di, but with very little mucking around with its controls.
Anywho... it's funny how vexing bass can be to record. A comment above about not fearing the mid-range is, I think, right on. I also do the dampening thing with foam, but I'm of two minds on that. Why can't a low note ring? It sounds good in the room.
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