I'm buying my first tape machine. Convince me not to.

timh · Post by **timh** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:34 pm

Thanks for all the help guys. I forgot about the whole thing with overdubs syncing with the original tracks when dumped into the DAW. Definitely not doing that. I guess I'll just have to give it some thought and see what kind of machines come on the market.

Mixing and grouping tracks (4/5 drum tracks to 2) is pretty scary to me also. I record in a house with no separate control room, so if I don't hear it right at first, it will suck to not be able to go back and change levels or anything. Is this just something that is learned after extensive experience?

kslight · Post by **kslight** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:27 pm

timh wrote:
Mixing and grouping tracks (4/5 drum tracks to 2) is pretty scary to me also. I record in a house with no separate control room, so if I don't hear it right at first, it will suck to not be able to go back and change levels or anything. Is this just something that is learned after extensive experience?

If in doubt, record a scratch pass, then playback, and adjust until you get it right.

I find in this process you rely less on close mics and more on room or overhead mics, which IMHO usually sound more like drums than close mics do?and you just bring in the close mics a small amount to add "detail" and "in focus" qualities on bass drum and snare. When I record to 8 track I am usually down to 3 or 4 mics at the most on the drums, so if the overhead isn't it then its pretty simple to move it, its not like I'm trying to balance 11 mics or something.

j.harv · Post by **j.harv** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:17 pm

Yeah... Don't worry about a plethora of mics on drums.
With my Tascam 388 I used to only use 2 mics into 1 track!
Now Im using 3 into 1 track.Overhead,snare,bass drum.Its just about getting your levels right.Im working with 8 tracks so I want to save as many tracks as I can.So If I can get a nice drum sound with one track(mono),I'll do just that.If the song does't have many parts,then I might do a stereo drum track.
And again with people questioning you why you want to use tape????,
Why the hell not!!! You want to,right? You wouldn't be getting asked this 25 yrs ago. Nothings changed to me...there's digital recording and there's analog to tape recording. Take your pick....or do both.

timh · Post by **timh** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:45 am

j.harv wrote:there's digital recording and there's analog to tape recording. Take your pick....or do both.

I like that. I probably will end up doing both. It's gonna be a whole new learning experience.

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:22 am

timh wrote:
Snarl 12/8 wrote:
timh wrote:It's mostly just for the experience.
Experience in Pro Tools is probably a better time investment, if you're considering this (or associated fields) as a career.

Edit: This is coming from someone who just bought a tape deck and is waiting for an analog mixer to come Tuesday so he can use it.
I always want to be recording, but I'm going to school for electrical engineering so I can build gear for a living. I don't think I'll be recording as a career.

What kind of deck did you get?

Timh, I noticed you said you are going to school for electrical engineering and that you are in Portland. Where are you going to school? I am in my senior year at OIT in Wilsonville for EET, and I have an MCI 24 track 2 inch that I need to overhaul one of these days....anyway I thought it would be interesting to connect with a local fellow recording enthusiast and engineering student.

Greg

timh · Post by **timh** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:43 am

soundmasterg wrote:
timh wrote:
Snarl 12/8 wrote:
timh wrote:It's mostly just for the experience.
Experience in Pro Tools is probably a better time investment, if you're considering this (or associated fields) as a career.

Edit: This is coming from someone who just bought a tape deck and is waiting for an analog mixer to come Tuesday so he can use it.
I always want to be recording, but I'm going to school for electrical engineering so I can build gear for a living. I don't think I'll be recording as a career.

What kind of deck did you get?
Timh, I noticed you said you are going to school for electrical engineering and that you are in Portland. Where are you going to school? I am in my senior year at OIT in Wilsonville for EET, and I have an MCI 24 track 2 inch that I need to overhaul one of these days....anyway I thought it would be interesting to connect with a local fellow recording enthusiast and engineering student.

Greg

PM'd!

Justin Foley · Post by **Justin Foley** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:27 pm

Did I miss the part where you say why you want to record on a tape machine?

The key advantage to tape over digital is the permanence of the medium. A well maintained, high quality tape recorder also likely has a sound reproduction quality that's as good as what you're likely to get with a computer.

A computer, on the other hand, is cheaper for a few reasons. The upfront cost of outboard gear is high compared to the cost of plugins. (Although plugins can be buggy and should be considered to be disposable over the medium-term.) Tape is more expensive than HD space. And the primary advantages of digital are what you'd think they would be - it's easier to manipulate digital sound (editing, creative arrangement) and it's much easier to cheaply share.

Over the long-term, both a computer and an analog setup require maintenance. The analog's is predictable - aging gear. The computer is not - system obsolescence and intra-system compatibility. (This last thing = "OS 10.15 isn't working with ProTools 24" type problems.)

If you're interested in getting into EE, you may find the whole enterprise of analog recording very rewarding. Expect that you'll be spending minimum of 25% of your recording time doing maintenance. Over the long haul, if this means you have a reliable setup that you know inside and out, this is probably a pretty good percentage.

I've chosen the full analog route, but I'm trying not to be biased* in my presentation of what I think you need to consider.

= Justin

*Oh my god so funny analog joke

Justin Foley · Post by **Justin Foley** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:33 pm

Oh, and the bad tape issue has been pretty well sorted by Jay McKnight as near as I know.

Read this.

Someone correct me if I'm missing something here. I'd love to hear it. Really, don't read that as a challenge; I'd like to know if there's types of tape I shouldn't be buying.

One more thing - the idea of buying a well functioning machine from someone who can attest to the functionality of it will be worth the time you save (and probably the extra money you'll have to spend on it). Staying in touch with studios, local recording folks, others and being patient on the purchase will be the difference between "this thing is a little quirky but I love it" and "my computer friends were right, I'm a fool, this thing's never going to work, how to you fix a messed up dancer arm anyway".

= Justin

timh · Post by **timh** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:43 pm

Well, I got lucky and acquired a very beautiful MX5050 from an awesome guy who knows Larry and the guys next door at Hamptone. He gave me head cleaner, a used tape with some room left on it, and a brand new reel all for around the price of what i would've paid to just SHIP the MX70 here. I'm very happy and I can't stop playing with it. So much fun. I also got a Vin-Jet with Lundahl on sale. It's the first time I've used a ribbon and I love it! Here's the evidence:

honkyjonk · Post by **honkyjonk** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:00 am

Was that the one that was on craigslist for awhile? In inner SE?

That looked like a pretty good buy to me. Glad somebody on here got it. Make sure the tape lifters are lifting the tape off the heads enough during fast transport.

Also, this appears to be a good link for the relays in those machines that tend to go bad: http://repforums.prosoundweb.com/index. ... ic=11836.0 See post by John Klett.

Injured Ear · Post by **Injured Ear** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:20 am

Keep the ribbon mics away from the tapes and the tape deck!

timh · Post by **timh** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:27 am

honkyjonk wrote:Was that the one that was on craigslist for awhile? In inner SE?

Yes, it was. It's in great condition and is very clean. As long as everything keeps working for at least the next couple weeks, I'll be very happy. Thanks for the info!

Injured Ear wrote:Keep the ribbon mics away from the tapes and the tape deck!

Wow, I never even thought of that. Thanks for pointing it out. the reel in the picture isn't special so I don't mind if it gets messed up, but I'll keep it in mind for the future.

timh · Post by **timh** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:36 am

While I have you guys here, I'm working out the ways I could hook up my tape deck to my console. Is there any good info on this floating around?

I'm thinking of going:
Mic>preamp>patch bay for comps>patched into console receives for summing>balance amps on my console (since it's all RCA/unbal.)>tape machine in's>tape machine out's>a different 8 channels of console receives for final mix

Is this weird? Stupid? Crazy?

Injured Ear · Post by **Injured Ear** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:30 pm

timh wrote:
honkyjonk wrote:Was that the one that was on craigslist for awhile? In inner SE?
Yes, it was. It's in great condition and is very clean. As long as everything keeps working for at least the next couple weeks, I'll be very happy. Thanks for the info!

Injured Ear wrote:Keep the ribbon mics away from the tapes and the tape deck!
Wow, I never even thought of that. Thanks for pointing it out. the reel in the picture isn't special so I don't mind if it gets messed up, but I'll keep it in mind for the future.

You ought to go across the entire tape path with a demagnetizer just to kill any possible magnetic fields you may have inadvertently caused, or it will start eating your high end off your tapes. You did buy a demagnetizer, didn't you?

timh · Post by **timh** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:17 pm

Injured Ear wrote: You ought to go across the entire tape path with a demagnetizer just to kill any possible magnetic fields you may have inadvertently caused, or it will start eating your high end off your tapes. You did buy a demagnetizer, didn't you?

Not yet. It's on the to-buy-list. It's gonna be a long process getting everything together, but I'll get there.

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