Pan/Mixing in Mono

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logancircle
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Pan/Mixing in Mono

Post by logancircle » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:08 am

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If I'm mixing in mono on headphones a (stereo field plugin and set the width to 0%) and I pan a track hard left or right (which in a stereo mix would only send its signal to one speaker), should my stereo-field plugin have a function which reduces a hard-panned track's volume as it is panned?

I do the mono thing mostly for EQ'ing, but I'm just curious if certain plugins are better for this than my stock RTAS ones.

Thanks!
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Re: Pan/Mixing in Mono

Post by Nick Sevilla » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:25 am

On consoles, Stereo Panorama pots were, after a while of fiddling with the concept,
recalibrated so that the CENTER is down a certain level from hard panned. This seemed to fool
the human ear when panning things.

The most common panning "law" is -3dB, on center, as compared to the hard pan level. The level changes
smoothly when panning from side to side, and the ear likes this change in level, it thinks it is smooth.

When I mix in Mono, I use my console's Mono buss, not an effect. And in effect, the level DOES NOT CHANGE
as I pan things about. The only reason I might pan when in mono, is when I have set the levels as close as I can,
and then want to move things away from the center. Then I go to Stereo and continue mixing.

Since you are using a plug in, it may or may not behave as a console. Experiment.

This is how that pan law looks:


PAN LEFT________CENTER________PAN RIGHT.

0 dB <<<<<<<<<<<< -3dB >>>>>>>>> 0 dB.

When Pan is full LEFT :

PAN LEFT________CENTER________PAN RIGHT.

0 dB <<<<<<<<<<<< -3dB <<<<<<<<< -inf dB.


This means that BOTH speakers get reduced by 3dB when the pan knob is at the center position.

Then, as you pan to a side, the other speaker starts getting a LOT less signal.

In these old consoles, there is a resistor setup between the pan pot center lug, and each side, that fores the center signal to be down 3dB.

In plug ins, this is accomplished by a "fake" resistor algorithm, which looks at your pan pot, and decides by how much to reduce the level to each output.
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Re: Pan/Mixing in Mono

Post by mmm » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:10 am

My DAW refers to its two available panning laws as "linear" and "logarithmic", the latter of which I use and I believe Mr. Sevilla gets through his console.

But see:

Easy explanation (with DAW examples): http://www.harmonycentral.com/articles/ ... nning-laws

"Mathier" explanation (at page bottom, see "Pan Laws"): https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~music/icm-onlin ... index.html
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~

Post by ashcat_lt » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:40 pm

Basically, it's not the plugin that should do that but rather the pan pot itself.

The plugin presumably receives a stereo mix of some number of tracks. How is it supposed to know when you've moved the pan pot on one of those? And what, exactly, do you propose it do about it? It would have to be able to un-mix the thing, do whatever to just the one track, and then mix it back together. Not happening.

At it's most basic, a mono-izing plugin should just add the two channels together, preferably divide by two, then spit that result back out to each channel. When it is engaged, in order to STOP a given source from being attenuated as it's panned away from center, you'd need a 6db pan law. Well, actually it's 20 * log 2 ~ 6.02..., and since you're probably working with floating point "voltage" numbers, it's easier to divide by 2 than to go back and forth with exponents and logs and stuff... ;) Then again, your DAW might just give you the 6db option, which might actually be the divide by 2, or might be flat 6db which probably close enough anyway. :)

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Re: Pan/Mixing in Mono

Post by mmm » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:21 am

Yeah, I hate the "mathier" part, me.

For some reason, and summed reasons, it works better when I just listen. :twisted:
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Re: Pan/Mixing in Mono

Post by Gregg Juke » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:10 am

mmm? mmm???

No, no, no, NO. You can't be "vvv" forever then just randomly change to another consonant. Not happening. Nah Gohn Do.

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Re: Pan/Mixing in Mono

Post by Nick Sevilla » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:26 am

Gregg Juke wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:10 am
mmm? mmm???

No, no, no, NO. You can't be "vvv" forever then just randomly change to another consonant. Not happening. Nah Gohn Do.

GJ
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Re: Pan/Mixing in Mono

Post by mmm » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:10 pm

:lol:

workin' onnit ...
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Re: ~

Post by logancircle » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:48 am

ashcat_lt wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:40 pm
At it's most basic, a mono-izing plugin should just add the two channels together, preferably divide by two, then spit that result back out to each channel. When it is engaged, in order to STOP a given source from being attenuated as it's panned away from center, you'd need a 6db pan law. Well, actually it's 20 * log 2 ~ 6.02...,
Do you happen to know if, when I'm listening through Izotope Ozone and use the mono setting, it will automatically adhere to this 6dB pan law, or do I have to adjust the tracks individually?
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Re: Pan/Mixing in Mono

Post by Magnetic Services » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:25 am

I hate the word "law" being applied in a music-related context :P
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Re: Pan/Mixing in Mono

Post by logancircle » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:03 am

Magnetic Services wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:25 am
I hate the word "law" being applied in a music-related context :P
Well luckily this is in a technological context :P :P
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Re: ~

Post by ashcat_lt » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:24 pm

logancircle wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:48 am
Do you happen to know if, when I'm listening through Izotope Ozone and use the mono setting, it will automatically adhere to this 6dB pan law, or do I have to adjust the tracks individually?

And yeah, listening duhhh :)
Well, how do you suppose Izotope is going to know where any of your pan pots are set? Can't. It sees two channels - left and right - and all it can do to collapse that to mono is add them together. \

In short: Nope.

The pan law is essentially applied at the pan pot itself. In fact, in the most basic of analog mixers, it's built into the taper of the pot.

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