Drum overhead comparison in GJ setup

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

Moderators: drumsound, tomb

Post Reply
User avatar
digitaldrummer
moves faders with mind
Posts: 2509
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:51 pm
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

Drum overhead comparison in GJ setup

Post by digitaldrummer » Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:53 pm

Happy New Year!

I had some time so I did a comparisons of different mics as drum overheads in a Glyn Johns setup. Thought I might share it since maybe others are curious too. Don't think of this as a shoot-out (don't even utter the words). It's not scientific. I setup mics, I measured (with a string I have taped off strategically as markers) to ensure equal distance from the snare. The kick and snare mic remained the same every time, although I did do this over a couple days so there's a chance the room changed slight due to temperature, etc.. also some mics had more or less output. I tried to get the overhead tracks at a similar level either by adjusting the preamps or using clip gain after the fact - but sometimes that might have meant I was pushing the preamp more - again NOT scientific. sorry this is what you get for free. :twisted: I also used 2 different mics in some cases because I did not have pairs of those mics.

ok, here's the link (I hope it works for everyone)

https://soundcloud.com/user-339351714/s ... dObgBNCcLl

the "raw" tracks is with no processing. The "mixed" has plugin processing, parallel compression, reverb send, etc. like I was using it in a mix. These are 256Mb mp3's (hopefully Soundcloud doesn't mess them up). The "raw2" track is again the full kit with no processing, but this time I enabled the VMR modeling plugins for the Slate Digital mics (if you want to hear the mics alone with no plugin, then listen to "raw" - subtle difference but some). I also added an "overheads only" tracks on 1-2-2021. This is like the "raw2" track, but without the kick and snare mics. Also, the "mixed" plugin processing was static - meaning it did not change for each individual segment - it's the same settings for the whole series.

and here's more detail. the overhead preamps were a pair of A-Designs P1. The Kick pre is the Avedis MA5 and the snare pre is a Hairball Audio "Gold". the kick mic is always a Miktek PM11 and the snare mic is a Shure 57.

The kit is a vintage Ludwig 22/16/13 with 6.5x14 Ludwig hammered brass snare
Cymbals are Zildjian "Vintage" Cie 14" hats, 16/18" crashes, Zildjian Constantinople 22 med ride

There are 8 short segments. I played each one separately (again NOT scientific) and they did change slightly but I tried to play the same volume, etc. so it's pretty consistent.

ovhd setup as below (in order) = top (snare side)/bottom (floor tom side)

1. Warm Audio Wa87/Wa87
2. Mojave MA101fet/Ma201fet
3. Cascade (with Lundahl) Fathead/Fathead
4. Slate Digital ML-2/ML-2
5. Slate Digital ML-1/Warm Audio Wa87
6. Weird Audio W47 mod2/Nady TCM-1050 (modded to same specs as Advanced Audio CM47)
7. Mojave Ma200/Telefunken CU-29
8. Weird Audio W47 mod2/Weird Audio Little Red Monster

#4 used the S-67 model (Slate VMR plugin)
#5 used the FG-67 model
but remember I'm not using the Slate "clean" preamp so models are not 100% accurate (...and I don't care).
.
drumkit2.jpg
drumkit2.jpg (224.68 KiB) Viewed 296 times
Last edited by digitaldrummer on Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Mike
www.studiodrumtracks.com -- Drum tracks starting at $50!
www.doubledogrecording.com

User avatar
losthighway
dead but not forgotten
Posts: 2132
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:02 pm
Contact:

Re: Drum overhead comparison in GJ setup

Post by losthighway » Fri Jan 01, 2021 5:28 pm

This is cool, thanks for sharing.

I like those WA87s. They have just the right kind of bright. I think in comparison the Mojave Fets sound just a hair too bright. Still totally usable.

The mixed version of those fatheads would be perfect for something where you wanted the drums to sit just a little further back. Like a singer songwriter with a band type deal. I always think an un-eq'd ribbon is almost unfair. A lot of condensers you can put them up and they're almost where they'll be when they get mixed. A fathead doesn't even get started for me until I cut the lows a bit and do some cavalier boosting in the highs to a degree I almost never do on any other source.

Also your overall drum kit, tuning, room, drum sound is very nice. Good work going on in there, I can tell.

Dok
audio school
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:12 am

Re: Drum overhead comparison in GJ setup

Post by Dok » Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:44 pm

I've always thought that the WA87 is a great overhead mic, in fact I prefer it to my U87ai in the shootouts I've done.

drumsound
zen recordist
Posts: 7042
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:30 pm
Location: Bloomington IL
Contact:

Re: Drum overhead comparison in GJ setup

Post by drumsound » Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:27 pm

Cool stuff, Mike. Thanks for sharing.

User avatar
digitaldrummer
moves faders with mind
Posts: 2509
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:51 pm
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

Re: Drum overhead comparison in GJ setup

Post by digitaldrummer » Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:21 am

I added a couple new tracks - "raw2" has the Slate Digital model plugin enabled. Forgot to do that, but then I thought it might be useful to hear the raw mics - which are actually pretty decent (especially the ML2's imo). Also added "overhead only" which solos the overhead mics only (instead of being mixed with the kick/snare mics). I was even a bit surprised how much kick/snare is covered by the overheads!

also, not sure if soundcloud makes you login (I think this link should just work but if not, let me know and I'll post another way)
Mike
www.studiodrumtracks.com -- Drum tracks starting at $50!
www.doubledogrecording.com

User avatar
digitaldrummer
moves faders with mind
Posts: 2509
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:51 pm
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

Re: Drum overhead comparison in GJ setup

Post by digitaldrummer » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:48 am

I've almost always preferred some kind of stereo overheads but this past weekend decided to try a mono overhead (for a surf-style track). Here's just the overhead:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cfqnu8xgso92j ... d.mp3?dl=0

Weird Audio W47 mod2 going into an A-Designs P1, which I have to say captured a full picture of the kit (even in mono). I also had kick, snare, and a "crotch" mic (EV664) to mix with it and it sounded really nice in the mix. I suppose staying in the center gave more room for the panned guitar tracks.
Mike
www.studiodrumtracks.com -- Drum tracks starting at $50!
www.doubledogrecording.com

drumsound
zen recordist
Posts: 7042
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:30 pm
Location: Bloomington IL
Contact:

Re: Drum overhead comparison in GJ setup

Post by drumsound » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:14 pm

Yeah, Mike! That sounds great. I traded off a ride cymbal that sounds a lot like the one you're playing on this cut. Does it have a kind of small bell and minimal bowing?

User avatar
digitaldrummer
moves faders with mind
Posts: 2509
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:51 pm
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

Re: Drum overhead comparison in GJ setup

Post by digitaldrummer » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:47 am

drumsound wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:14 pm
Yeah, Mike! That sounds great. I traded off a ride cymbal that sounds a lot like the one you're playing on this cut. Does it have a kind of small bell and minimal bowing?
it's a lot like this one -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1RuMf3u71U
the bell is certainly not huge, but not tiny. not sure the exact weight on mine. would have to check - but sounds pretty close to this one. I bought it used a few years ago
Mike
www.studiodrumtracks.com -- Drum tracks starting at $50!
www.doubledogrecording.com

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 32 guests