policies on vax or non-vax

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Recycled_Brains
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Re: policies on vax or non-vax

Post by Recycled_Brains » Sun May 23, 2021 11:43 am

Un-vaxx'd or unwilling to prove it, mask.

Vaxx'd to the max, no mask.
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Re: policies on vax or non-vax

Post by dave watkins » Sun May 23, 2021 3:00 pm

I think with the CDC and states lifting restrictions and putting the responsibility on business owners to enforce safety policies as they see fit, it's gonna get harder pretty quickly to not have to deal with people arguing about mask policies if businesses (smartly) continue them. The annoying thing is the same people that were complaining about the CDC making them wear masks a year ago are now going to be citing the CDC for all the reasons they no longer need to regardless of their vaccination status. Here in Virginia restrictions been lifted as of last week but a lot of folks I see out and about are still wearing them indoors in heavily populated stores etc. I'm definitely going to keep wearing mine for a while when shopping. It's definitely a respect thing, I don't want anyone who for whatever reason cannot get the vaccine, or has only had one dose, to have to worry about being in my vicinity. I'll probably chill out on this if active cases continue to go down.

I did see one unmasked dude at the checkout at a grocery store yesterday open up a beverage right in front of the clerk and chug it and make the obligatory "ahhh" sound... In addition to giving him the biggest stink eye ever I knew right there and then that assholes are just gonna continue to be assholes no matter the situation.

I would like to think that most people we might entertain recording right now would not be in the same camp with that guy. But I think just clear communication on what your safety protocols are ahead of time with clients is all that's needed. It's an uncomfortable conversation to have, but you are not in violation of any laws to ask for potential clients to prove their covid vaccination status. Hopefully you're working with like minded folks and everybody is concerned about health and safety in addition to having a good time making music. There are people who cannot get the vaccine due to other health reasons, so you also have to figure out how to accommodate them. There's a lot of nuance to navigate right now and there's no one size fits all option.

I had a couple seasons earlier in the pandemic before vaccines and everyone stayed masked and everyone was fine, when vocals had to be done maskless, we did our best. Vocalists quarantined as much as possible in advance, got tested, and we tried to keep them isolated/far away from others when actually recording. I've had one session where everyone was vaccinated within the last month where the whole band tracked various vocal parts. I kept my mask on but did not worry so much about them as much. I'll probably continue to roll that way if I do any more recording projects with others in the near future. But I am also looking forward to getting together with a small group of musicians I trust to play music with again unmasked in the not too distant future. The ballet company I work for has also been doing live, in person performances with massively reduced capacity and social distancing since September. Audiences, crew and dancers have all had to wear masks. We only lifted that a little bit this week for our final run of shows for some dancers because of the vaccinations, but requiring masks for as long as we have has resulted in absolutely zero contagions connected to what will end up being 96 live performances when we close today. I'm rambling now but the point is at the end of the day I think we're just looking at the need for continued effort in keeping each other safe to the best of our abilities mixed with a bit of "well, we're just gonna have to hope for the best at this point!"
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Re: policies on vax or non-vax

Post by digitaldrummer » Tue May 25, 2021 11:32 am

forgot to mention, I also bought 2 of these and had them running in the house, but one has made it out to the studio (which was my plan all along) so I run this before/after any sessions.
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purifier.jpg
purifier.jpg (40.49 KiB) Viewed 797 times
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Re: policies on vax or non-vax

Post by Theo_Karon » Thu May 27, 2021 2:20 pm

At the risk of ruffling some feathers...

I should note that I'm in LA, and like 70% of my clientele are queer leftists/anarchists who want the patriarchy to burn... so, the few vocal sessions I've done over the pandemic, getting people to mask up until they're in the booth with the doors closed has not been an issue.

But here in the US, we're rapidly nearing the point where everyone who wants to be vaccinated is vaccinated. I know that this is not the case in many other places (very aware of this as I'm moving to Berlin in just over a month) but as time goes on this will be increasingly true in more and more places.

There has to be a point where we just say screw it. Wearing a mask and attempting to stop the spread of the virus both among ourselves and to those who are most vulnerable to it was a moral imperative until very recently - one that a loud, angry, willfully ignorant contingent of the population has made a conspicuous point of ignoring (and/or politicizing, as the case may be.) Once all who want protection can have it, we are for all intents and purposes out of the equation: the odds of us catching the virus are low, the odds of us becoming seriously ill are almost insignificant (you're probably putting yourself in greater danger every time you drive to the studio) and the odds of us transmitting to others it are similarly insignificant - on par with other risks that we willingly accept every day.

So what's left? Are we just wearing masks to try to convince the anti-science, anti-vax contingent to wear them? Somehow I don't think the anti-vax, anti-mask crowd are suddenly going to have a change of heart (although the fact that some of them are now masking up to protect themselves by the 'compromised genetic material' shed by the vaccinated is HILARIOUS). So, who is it for?

After a certain point you can't reasonably protect people from themselves, and no one can reasonably say that they're not going into this with open eyes. The unvaccinated pose no real risk to the vaccinated. This all falls apart in places where access to the vaccine is still difficult or stratified - but once everyone who wants it has it, I think there has to be a point where we take the fools at their word and let them reap the consequences of their own decisions, whatever those consequences may be.

Edited to add: as vaccines become available my policy is quickly becoming a hard line, vaccine or stay home - it was masks all the way until people started getting the vax - I'm speaking more broadly here. And I think there is a lot of understandable anxiety wrapped up in all of this, to which research and rationality are the antidote. For instance, I think that wondering about the risks and long-term effects of the vaccine is perfectly reasonable; I also think that upon doing even basic research on those points, the only sane conclusion one can arrive at is that the risks posed by the disease far outweigh those of the cure. Get vaccinated.

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Re: policies on vax or non-vax

Post by losthighway » Thu May 27, 2021 4:37 pm

Theo_Karon wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 2:20 pm
At the risk of ruffling some feathers...
I'm totally with you on all of that. But, also I'm privileged in that I'm not trying to make sure I can cover the lease on my space. I sure hope the people who are don't get stuck with those kinds of choices.

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Re: policies on vax or non-vax

Post by Scodiddly » Thu May 27, 2021 4:57 pm

Not everybody can be vaccinated. One of my customers is allergic to something in the vaccines, and may have to retire as a performer if the country can't achieve herd immunity.

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Re: policies on vax or non-vax

Post by Theo_Karon » Thu May 27, 2021 5:51 pm

Scodiddly - totally - that really sucks.

I have some friends in similarly compromised positions. It's horrible.

Maybe I didn't put a fine enough point on it - my view is that this kind of social imperative is not a joke. To me it has nothing to do with government or politics; it's a simple, dignified bare minimum of concern for the well-being of others, and I can't find any vantage on those who disdain that imperative that makes it look like anything other than total derangement. I think the conservative antisocial mindset really crashes against the rocks here; this stuff can get political quickly which I know is not the point of this forum - so I hope I'm not out of bounds, but in any case it seems that everyone posting in this thread is on the sane side of things!

I think it's important to not mince words - I'll outline my thoughts, which are a work in progress, so if you see any glaring flaws here please do point them out! My understanding is that the risk of a vaccinated person becoming seriously ill, or infecting another unvaccinated person, are so low that they are now on par with any of the million other fractional risks we accept as part of daily life. So we who are vaccinated are not really a threat to our more vulnerable comrades: there's an outside chance that we could still infect them, and that the infection could be serious or even deadly, but it's in the same neighborhood as the risk we would accept were we to give that same friend a ride to the airport. We'd feel terrible and perhaps even responsible if the worst happened in either case, but the chances of that are extremely low and thus not typically a matter of day-to-day concern. (Maybe there's some kind of parallel here between masks and seatbelts? I wear a seatbelt and encourage everyone to; not doing it seems plainly stupid. Perhaps there are heightened risk factors for certain people that I'm not aware of; at the end of the day, if someone wants me to wear a mask around them so that they can feel safe, of course I'm going to oblige. If a friend of mine feels that they must wear a mask always, even around vaccinated people, and continues to feel intense fear around leaving the house, maybe we need to have a talk - and the psychological scars of this year have been very deep. I think there is a pinch of agoraphobia to be found in almost all of us these days, but please don't mistake that observation for a lack of empathy or denial of its antecedents.)

The threat rather comes from the legions of utterly unsympathetic people who simply don't care. It's some constellation of conspiracy theory, plain old willful ignorance, and complete lack of concern for the wellfare of others. That last point is the one that really grates on me, and it's why I'm all for vaccine passports etc - screw these people and their utter failure to meet the most basic moral challenge. Yes, there could be serious problems with the passport idea (or proof of vaccination required for entry at events, etc) if access to the vaccine created further social stratification - and this is a serious problem in some countries - but in the US and increasingly in Europe, that's not the problem we're having. Vaccines are free, and increasingly available to everyone. The problem we're having is that a bunch of people don't or won't understand that we are truly all in this together, in a way that nobody can opt out of, and that our choices affect each other whether we want them to or not. I think the cost of these antisocial behaviors should be much higher. I would like to see anti-vaxers ostracized, shunned, and barred from public life so that our more vulnerable comrades can be safe. I think it's utterly ridiculous that many of us are still trying to caretake these people's feelings. They can go get fucked. So please don't for a moment mistake anything I'm saying here as callousness towards the people who truly can't get vaccinated.

Lastly, as losthighway noted - I really don't envy anyone who has a client base that intersects meaningfully with any of these groups. I've had to make some tough calls re: a couple of interpersonal relationships, but nothing that comes close to threatening my bottom line (I mean, the pandemic has been rough overall, but not because of anti-vaxers.) So for anyone who has those sort of truly diffcult decisions ahead, I wish you the best. Also I apologize for the US/eurocentrism on display here, but I'm addressing the situations with which I'm most familiar.

Whew. Thanks for coming to my TED talk. I hope none of my points are taken amiss; please let me know if this isn't useful or if I'm overstepping the bounds here - hopefully we can all get back to talking about which revision of 1176 and red dot opamps and why isn't there any sound coming out of the box very soon.
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Re: policies on vax or non-vax

Post by Scodiddly » Thu May 27, 2021 6:25 pm

Totally with you, Theo. I'm not religious, but this is the most "Jesus" thing I can think of happening in my lifetime. You protect yourself by protecting others, so that the disease fizzles out and fades away. Wearing a mask, getting vaccinated, that's something you should want to do just to be a part of society.

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Re: policies on vax or non-vax

Post by markjazzbassist » Fri May 28, 2021 5:32 am

well put Theo

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Re: policies on vax or non-vax

Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Fri May 28, 2021 11:32 am

Yep, agree 100%.

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Re: policies on vax or non-vax

Post by vvv » Fri May 28, 2021 3:09 pm

Me, I kinda dislike pain and so I am a anti-waxxer and ... eh ... :twisted:

I agree, Theo-Karon.

I was atta cookout last week where a good friend noted she is un-vaxxed due to immunity issues. The rest of us were, tho', so she was, and we all were comfortable.
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Re: policies on vax or non-vax

Post by digitaldrummer » Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:09 am

had my first vocal recording session yesterday - she is vaccinated too (so no masks). and of course we've been having band rehearsals too for a few weeks (and everyone has their shots there too). anyway, it feels good to be doing studio work again. Even played on a live gig (2 weeks ago now). It was supposed to be outside, but rain threatened, so we moved indoors. Felt weird, but at the same time was so great to play live music again I got over that feeling quickly. It will continue to be great as long as the vaccines hold up. 8)
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Re: policies on vax or non-vax

Post by Nick Sevilla » Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:27 am

Now that we have a Delta variant, which seems more infectious, and the current vaccines are slightly less effective against it, I will continue with the masks and social distancing.

I am fully vaccinated, and my family is in process, but to me it is more important that we all get out of the woods together as a species.

So far, Covid is still very much out there, it just seems safer now that vaccines are here. Covid is not going away.

How long did it take for us to get rid of smallpox?
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Re: policies on vax or non-vax

Post by vvv » Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:04 pm

So my 24 y.o. spawn wanted to bring a friend over to hang with her, who is un-vaxxed "because she is waiting".

At least the daughter asked - I told her "NFW".

"Why?" she asked, "you are vax'd."

I told her because while there may be minimal risk, I don't encourage assholes, which her friend is being.

FWIW, they are going swimming at the public pool today, so I know the friend's judgment is not something I wanna trust.

And I'm questioning my daughter's ... :x
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