Best mic for acoustic in live setting?

[randrohe]

We are a 4 piece w/ drums, bass, elec guitar, and singer who plays acoustic.
We have been using an acoustic amp but would like a more realistic tone and wanted to try micing instead.
So, considering monitor feedback, would it be best to use a hypercardioid, figure 8, cardioid?
Possibly a DI straight into PA?
There isn’t a sound man involved, so trying to get it done from onstage with the least amount of problems / best sound.
We are going to do a mic shoot out soon, but just looking for some opinions.
We play small shows without a lot of volume. We have a controlled and quiet drummer which is nice for a change.
Thanks in advance for opinions.
Not exactly creative recording but maybe we will record some shows, so?

[KuruPrionz]

I'm assuming the acoustic guitar has a pickup?
Can you provide a description of the guitar and the pickup?
Also of the amp?

With a full band, a microphone on the acoustic guitar could be problematic, unless you are all very low volume.
Even then, it's tricky.

Some acoustic guitar pickups sound really nice and fairly natural - as natural as any acoustic instrument being amplified through a speaker can be.
The same is true of amplifiers, some of them sound great and others not so much.

FWIW, I'm using a K&K Pro Mini on my Rainsong OM-1000 and playing through a Fishman Loudbox Performer and it sounds really nice.
I've done sound at open mic nights more than a few times and the variations are many. Some of them really aren't great, harsh yet thin.

[digitaldrummer]

if the guitar has a built-in pickup, or if you add a piezo pickup, etc. that's usually the easiest and even though I personally hate that sound for recording most of the time, it's usually OK though a PA for live shows. If you mic it, then the player has to stay in the right spot (because you'll want something with good rejection/tight cardioid or you will get feedback) - the spot where you set the mic up to get the right tone you wanted - or it's probably all out the window in a matter of seconds. Most lead singers I know don't like to stand like a statue on stage. If you are a "sit down" band, then maybe a mic on the acoustic guitar is more realistic. Also, I'm assuming you are playing smaller clubs and not huge stadiums.

[KuruPrionz]

if the guitar has a built-in pickup, or if you add a piezo pickup, etc. that's usually the easiest and even though I personally hate that sound for recording most of the time, it's usually OK though a PA for live shows. If you mic it, then the player has to stay in the right spot (because you'll want something with good rejection/tight cardioid or you will get feedback) - the spot where you set the mic up to get the right tone you wanted - or it's probably all out the window in a matter of seconds. Most lead singers I know don't like to stand like a statue on stage. If you are a "sit down" band, then maybe a mic on the acoustic guitar is more realistic. Also, I'm assuming you are playing smaller clubs and not huge stadiums.

I've found that under saddle piezo pickups tend to have harsh attack transients and just don't sound pretty. The K&K I use has the transducers under the top, using crazy glue gel to fasten them. The additional buffer of the wood of the bridge, top and bridge plate plus 3 total layers of glue (thin to be sure), softens that transient and shifts the frequency response to a fuller, smoother overall tone.
Of the undersaddle transducers, I like the B-Band, which is not a piezo pickup. All of them are much better than they used to be.

That said, the tone of my guitar was much improved by removing the under saddle transducer completely and replacing the bridge saddle with a bone one that goes from the strings to the bottom of the saddle slot. That alone was worth doing but the K&K sounds great compared to the LR Baggs pickup I removed and sold.

I'm a guitar tech, have installed all sorts of things. I've no affiliation with K&K, have done 5 installations and everybody has been very happy.

[roscoenyc]

I toured with a well known songwriter for five years. We had a full crew, our own sound people, backline people etc.
The guy had great guitars. He had the K&K pickup and internal microphone setup with a high end channel strip type preamp for the DI and the internal mic. I really love the K&K pickup and I have it in a couple of my own acoustic guitars.

It still didn't work the way we all hoped it would with the band..

I don't play with him anymore but now he's using one of these Fishman DI's that has acoustic emulations in it.
It's not the only one out there but these things are next level good.

A microphone on stage with an electric band with drums is not practical. Especially a band that doesn't have their own crew.

I'd urge you to try one of these things. https://www.fishman.com/portfolio/aura- ... di-preamp/

[darjama]

I tend to like the sound of sound hole pickups (I've used LR baggs & dean Markey ones) through a PA better than most built in piezo pickups. Agree with others here that mic'ing in a live band situation can be awfully tricky.

[numberthirty]

I toured with a well known songwriter for five years. We had a full crew, our own sound people, backline people etc.
The guy had great guitars. He had the K&K pickup and internal microphone setup with a high end channel strip type preamp for the DI and the internal mic. I really love the K&K pickup and I have it in a couple of my own acoustic guitars.

It still didn't work the way we all hoped it would with the band..

I don't play with him anymore but now he's using one of these Fishman DI's that has acoustic emulations in it.
It's not the only one out there but these things are next level good.

A microphone on stage with an electric band with drums is not practical. Especially a band that doesn't have their own crew.

I'd urge you to try one of these things. https://www.fishman.com/portfolio/aura- ... di-preamp/

Along this line...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSGsV4GOjxw

[A.David.MacKinnon]

Doesn't sound very acoustic but goddam..................it sounds awesome

[randrohe]

Thanks to all for the informed opinions and links. The acoustic being used is a mid level Takamine with the under saddle piezo into a 50 watt Marshall acoustic amp.
I do remember liking the sound of the Dean Markley Woody slip in pickups more than the piezo now that my memory was jogged.
I sent my singer this link so he can check out some of the suggestions.
I have a Black Finger compressor that I might try in front of the amp.
Maybe a little grit along with compression and possible an eq to tame some of the ugly.
We have yet to try mic shoot out yet, but I have a m88, a 201, a Heil Pr 30 which fit the hypercardioid ticket.
He is a very controlled and experienced singer who understands mic technique and positioning..
At the very least, we are doing some experimenting.
Again, appreciate your input

[dave watkins]

Absolutely agree with everyone worried about feedback when using a mic live in a band setting, but definitely try out the things you have on hand and see if you can find some improvement without spending cash. The under saddle piezo pickup already in the guitar will most likely get you the most gain before feedback of all options, a soundhole pickup might be the next best thing. I love K&K transducers but those and other soundboard transducers can also just turn the guitar into a giant wooden microphone if you're not careful. I have a K&K system in one of my instruments and it's fantastic if I'm playing solo, but I would be very hesitant in using it in a band scenario with drums. The threshold at which feedback happens may be different from room to room as well so you may not be able to have a set it and forget it option with mics or soundboard transducers, just something to be ready for.

Maybe try a blend of the onboard piezo and the 201? That might allow you to get a bit more natural body sound in the mix to balance out the quacky harshness of the piezo. You could also just send the piezo to monitors and the piezo+mic to the house PA only to have a greater chance of preventing feedback.

The piezo running through the blackfinger could be a good way to soften up the attack and smooth things out. Probably won't be super natural sounding but it might sound cool in it's own way.

As far as equipment to look into; in the past I've been happier running acoustic instruments direct into the PA via a Radial PZ-pre vs using acoustic amps. Things sounded more natural to me but this it's absolutely a personal preference thing. These things also make the possibility of blending pickups a little easier in situations where you don't have a sound engineer or full blown PA if you wanted to do something like blend the under-saddle piezo with a sound hole pickup. https://www.radialeng.com/product/pz-pre

Outside of this the one spendy mic option I haven't seen mentioned here is the DPA 4099 with guitar mount. You have the benefit of not having to play to a mic on a stand, but the mount could be in the way depending on how the guitarist plays. But these things are super cardioid and designed to be used in a live setting where you can close mic but still get a natural picture of the instrument. I use them in reinforcement scenarios with orchestras on harp and piano and they are pretty great.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... nting-clip

[AndersonSoundRecording]

A good DI is probably the easiest, "no fuss" way to go. My go-to for acoustic guitar is the JDI from Radial. DI is best for isolation, and control of stage bleed and phasing from vocal mic's, if not for sound quality.

However, if you have the bread and you REALLY want a mic (in addition to the DI, cause it's nice to have some acoustic tone to blend in...), the DPA 4099 is hard to beat. I've also gotten away with hanging its cousin - the 4060 - right into the soundhole behind the stings; but either of these will only work if the stage & monitors are kept at a sane level.