Critique drum sound?

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standup
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Critique drum sound?

Post by standup » Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:57 am

I'm trying to figure out what I can do do improve my drum sounds. I'm in a basement with pretty thorough treatment (rockwool overhead, lots of fiberglass behind and to the sides of the kit).

This is for a roots-ish project with acoustic instruments, so the drums need to be natural and laid-back.

Sony C38b overheads, Mojave SDC on snare, 868 on kick, ribbon mic front-of-kit.

What can I do to make this sound better? There's some compression on every channel, EQ on the overheads to cut low mids, low roll-off on snare and a boost around 3k.

This was cut live-in-the-room, and this is a rehearsal, not a finished product. I'll probably run the bass direct since that's the biggest bleed issue. And put my reflection-filter thing in front of the vocal mic to cut down on the vocal bleed.

My question is, if you can take a quick listen, what steps to take to make the drums sound a bit better and more cohesive?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u231lei2x523i ... t.mp3?dl=0

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Re: Critique drum sound?

Post by vvv » Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:40 am

I'm a amateur, but I'd lay a limiter across the drum submix.
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Re: Critique drum sound?

Post by digitaldrummer » Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:51 am

does that mix have the vocal mic in it? Unless you have iso booths, the drums almost always certainly bleed into the vocal mics and then act like room mics for the drums -- and any effects you put on the vocals also goes on the drums. otherwise it seems like you have a lot of high end in the drum mix (but again could be bleed from other mics?). a ribbon overhead might make those cymbals sound smoother. but drum mixes vary wildly by personal taste...
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Re: Critique drum sound?

Post by losthighway » Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:48 am

(Listening on my work stereo, not studio speakers)

It ain't broke. For the basic tracks this all seems totally useable and clear. How it gets mixed to work with whatever other layers will be another question.

The kick is more classic/old school i.e. natural and round, not a smile curve with crazy subs and a fierce click, which is probably perfect for the style.

I like it just fine. Sorry if you wanted someone to pick at it more, maybe someone else can explain what's lacking but I'd be happy to mix this the way it was recorded.

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Re: Critique drum sound?

Post by standup » Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:04 pm

Thanks for listening, y'all. I'm just looking for ideas/approaches, I agree it ain't really broke here, it sounds like a drum kit. Maybe when there's more to the mix it will sound more cohesive, maybe the overheads are up a bit too much right now. This is far from mixed, just the raw tracks with the little things I've done so far with EQ and compression.

@digitaldrummer, the amount of drums in the vocal mic is really pretty minimal. The acoustic guitar bleed is a little louder, for example. If I mute the vocal mic, the drum sound doesn't really change at all.

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Re: Critique drum sound?

Post by Dok » Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:01 pm

Sounds bright but good overall! Do you need stereo overheads? They may not be as necessary as you might think. I like to play with one "overhead" above and behind the drummer's right shoulder, pointed at the kick pedal (then adjust positioning to taste for overall kit balance), especially if it's an omni but other patterns can work just as well. Worth trying your ribbon there or any other OH position to tame those cymbals too.

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Re: Critique drum sound?

Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:41 pm

Listening on a laptop I agree it ain't broke. Maybe put back a little of the low mids in the overheads and/or ease up on the 3k on the snare a lil bit. Maybe a lil more overall compression. Tough to say without hearing it in context of the mix, but they sound like drums!

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Re: Critique drum sound?

Post by drumsound » Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:47 pm

A ribbon overhead might help, but to be honest the biggest improvement you can make is getting better, more appropriate cymbals. Those things are screaming "inexpensive cymbal pack" to me. Cymbals can't be tuned (though there are guys that will re-lathe cymbals, though most say starting with a cymbal you don't like will often create a different cymbal you don't like).

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Re: Critique drum sound?

Post by standup » Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:28 am

Actually, cymbals are decent, I’m just making them sound cheap.

Sabian aax, Istanbul agop. Crash on the right is an “xist” 20”, which was not expensive, and has some weird overtones that I consider cool tones.

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Re: Critique drum sound?

Post by A.David.MacKinnon » Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:08 am

I'm with everyone else here. I think it sounds good. It's bright and cymbal heavy in it's raw form here but that might be just fine in the context of a full mix. It's hard to say without hearing the rest. At mix time you could certainly pull the OHs down and lean into the FOK ribbon if you want to tame the highs but keep the detail.

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Re: Critique drum sound?

Post by digitaldrummer » Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:12 am

standup wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:28 am
Actually, cymbals are decent, I’m just making them sound cheap.

Sabian aax, Istanbul agop. Crash on the right is an “xist” 20”, which was not expensive, and has some weird overtones that I consider cool tones.
or are you using nylon tip sticks? wood tips might help. When I heard it I was thinking "B8" so am surprised to see what you are using... but that was part of the brightness I mentioned too. when I think "roots" I would grab the old K's or similar. dark and smoky vs. icepick to the forehead. :lol:
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Re: Critique drum sound?

Post by roscoenyc » Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:34 am

I like it.

In the future I'd try one of those fuzzy beaters on the kick and also give a full front head (with no hole) a try.

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Re: Critique drum sound?

Post by dave watkins » Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:41 am

Overall it sounds great to me. Love the kick sound and I agree with everyone here on the cymbals being the only thing that might be worth experimenting with, if I turn down my monitors the element that jumps out the most to me is that stick attack. As digitaldrummer mentioned if they are nylon tips, wood tips are worth trying, if they are wood tips, trying something lighter for this sort of playing might do it for you. Try going thinner than a 5a, something like the Peter Erskine Ride Stick can work wonders on overly bright cymbals. Everyone else's suggestions on trying different things with the over heads makes sense, try and find a spot that will produce a full, balanced picture of the kit with the over head(s). A skillfully placed mono ribbon could work great, or if you want to keep your overheads stereo, something like a Glyn Johns style setup might sound great for this style.
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Re: Critique drum sound?

Post by standup » Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:51 am

Thanks y’all, this has been helpful and constructive.

@digtaldrummer, my wife is the drummer and she’s using wood tips.

I had added some high end, trying to get some exciting sheen. I think I need to turn off all plugins on the Kit and just go back, and think in terms of body rather than brightness. Re-evaluate based on the reactions I’m getting here. And, unsurprisingly, @morespaceecho is exactly right, there’s a 3k boost on the snare mic.

This is a work in progress, I’m hoping to get the working tracks done in the next week or two then move on to overdubs and mixing.

We had another practice last night, and I was able to go back later and replace the vocal and guitar tracks as an overdub. This is tracked live. The vocals in the drum mics were low enough that it can be done. But the guitar mic had too much of the vocal to just overdub the vocal. So I’m switching to a figure 8 for the guitar with the vocal in the null, and a super-tight mic for the vocal.

The snare mic had the most bleed from the guitar and vocal, so I put a reflection filter thing to block sound coming from the back of the snare mic.

Trying for some final tracks on a couple tunes Monday night.

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Re: Critique drum sound?

Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:26 am

standup wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:51 am
unsurprisingly, @morespaceecho is exactly right
Gonna make that my sig. :D

You mentioned boosting 3k on the snare, I didn't just guess that!

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