Additional Analog Outputs via ADAT

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Re: Additional Analog Outputs via ADAT

Post by digitaldrummer » Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:27 am

if you are close to pulling the trigger on something new, I would not dismiss the Behringer ADA8200 (or even an older ADA8000). They might not be all that different than the BLA modded AI-3. And at only $229 brand new (and you can probably still resell for $150 in a year). I've used these in the past for recordings that turned out just fine. anyway, it's a lot less that the Ferrofish and I don't think you'd get the same rate of resell out of one of those.

Apollo is nice but overpriced (and so are the plugins, so look closely at the Brainworx equivalents on Plugin Alliance before going to deep). The Antelope Orion 32 can be found used now for close to what you were willing to drop for the Ferrofish and it gets you 32 channels of solid I/O in a 1U rack space (one on Reverb for $1350 right now). And the conversion is excellent. If my Apollo 16 were to go, I'd probably get one of the Orion's again.

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Re: Additional Analog Outputs via ADAT

Post by trodden » Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:41 am

digitaldrummer wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:27 am
if you are close to pulling the trigger on something new, I would not dismiss the Behringer ADA8200 (or even an older ADA8000). They might not be all that different than the BLA modded AI-3. And at only $229 brand new (and you can probably still resell for $150 in a year). I've used these in the past for recordings that turned out just fine. anyway, it's a lot less that the Ferrofish and I don't think you'd get the same rate of resell out of one of those.

Apollo is nice but overpriced (and so are the plugins, so look closely at the Brainworx equivalents on Plugin Alliance before going to deep). The Antelope Orion 32 can be found used now for close to what you were willing to drop for the Ferrofish and it gets you 32 channels of solid I/O in a 1U rack space (one on Reverb for $1350 right now). And the conversion is excellent. If my Apollo 16 were to go, I'd probably get one of the Orion's again.

Mike
Good to know! Excuse my ignorance, but would a Orion 32 work in place of my 192, or would it have to be connected to the 192?

EDIT: Wow, it hooks up via USB?? Things have changed. For some reason I had forgotten that PT now allows you to use different hardware besides their own.

I'll probably look into a thunderbolt Orion when I make the big upgrade in a few years.

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Re: Additional Analog Outputs via ADAT

Post by trodden » Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:47 am

Hell. It may be time to just get a used Lynx Aurora set up.

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Re: Additional Analog Outputs via ADAT

Post by The Scum » Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:57 am

The Orion can be configured in the control panel app for whichever combination of Analog-ADAT-MADI-USB you want it to do. You can then store 5 of those configs in the 5 buttons on the front panel.

I've used mine successfully with Windows/iOS/Mac/Linux. If you're not changing the routing, you don't need the control app.

Pretty serious bang for the buck.
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Re: Additional Analog Outputs via ADAT

Post by digitaldrummer » Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:11 am

the one thing that may be different for you with and Orion or Apollo (or at least it was for me when I went from Avid/Digi hardware to non-Avid hardware) was that to monitor with no latency, you have to mute the outputs in Pro Tools and monitor from within the console app (the one included with the interface). Then you have to remember to mute that input (so whoever is playing or singing or whatever doesn't drive you nuts) and unmute the output again in Pro Tools so you can play it back. If you don't mute in PT, then you end up with the robot/phasey/chorus sound. This was sort of "automatic" way back when I had a Digi 002r and had "low latency input monitoring" on but that does not work with non-Avid hardware (at least did not for me with the Orion 32 or Apollo 16). it took some re-training of my workflow, but I'm used to it now and it's "automatic" again (meaning I just do it...).

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Re: Additional Analog Outputs via ADAT

Post by trodden » Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:57 am

digitaldrummer wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:11 am
the one thing that may be different for you with and Orion or Apollo (or at least it was for me when I went from Avid/Digi hardware to non-Avid hardware) was that to monitor with no latency, you have to mute the outputs in Pro Tools and monitor from within the console app (the one included with the interface). Then you have to remember to mute that input (so whoever is playing or singing or whatever doesn't drive you nuts) and unmute the output again in Pro Tools so you can play it back. If you don't mute in PT, then you end up with the robot/phasey/chorus sound. This was sort of "automatic" way back when I had a Digi 002r and had "low latency input monitoring" on but that does not work with non-Avid hardware (at least did not for me with the Orion 32 or Apollo 16). it took some re-training of my workflow, but I'm used to it now and it's "automatic" again (meaning I just do it...).

Mike
I was actually concerned about this. Good to hear that there is a work around enabling low-latency monitoring.

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Re: Additional Analog Outputs via ADAT

Post by digitaldrummer » Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:48 am

one other thought on an interface with DSP... the ability to track with a plugin enabled without any perceivable latency is great too. I have very minimal outboard hardware (other than preamps) so if I want to grab a UAD compressor to track with, or a reverb, or whatever this is a nice feature to have. The original Orion 32 does not have DSP but some later versions do (via FPGA). I'll always keep my UAD PCIe card (in my PC) so even if I switched interfaces I'd still have them for mixing, but if I went to another interface, I'd really want to still have that option to track with a plugin enabled. Now the Apollo can also print these effects which is a great feature because sometimes that compressor or a limiter is absolutely necessary to prevent losing a great take due to blowing out the input levels (for example on a live take)

but if you have lots of outboard hardware, probably not a need or concern.
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Re: Additional Analog Outputs via ADAT

Post by trodden » Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:57 am

digitaldrummer wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:48 am
one other thought on an interface with DSP... the ability to track with a plugin enabled without any perceivable latency is great too. I have very minimal outboard hardware (other than preamps) so if I want to grab a UAD compressor to track with, or a reverb, or whatever this is a nice feature to have. The original Orion 32 does not have DSP but some later versions do (via FPGA). I'll always keep my UAD PCIe card (in my PC) so even if I switched interfaces I'd still have them for mixing, but if I went to another interface, I'd really want to still have that option to track with a plugin enabled. Now the Apollo can also print these effects which is a great feature because sometimes that compressor or a limiter is absolutely necessary to prevent losing a great take due to blowing out the input levels (for example on a live take)

but if you have lots of outboard hardware, probably not a need or concern.
It's amazing how much tech has changed over the last 10 years as well as how far I'm constantly behind when it comes to it. I was on pro tools 6.2 from like 2002-2015, via Digi 001 and the mentioned AI-3 and then a Mix Plus TDM rig with 888's. So I depended on a lot of hardware since the plugs pretty much sucked, except for Massey plugs and there were a couple useable bombfactory plugs. Having to shift all the tracks by X amount of samples to keep the phase correct. But it's all on the cheaper end of hardware. Getting the HD2 rig in 2015 was eyeopening. Delay compensation, plugs that actually sound good. I was so set in my ways that I continued to work a hybrid way of hardware and software, and I think it works for me. I keep hearing about how the UA plugs are the shit, and how processing them in real time without latency is possible, etc. I'd love to use it in a manner like I do with hardware. Commit to a sound and print it in real time without any latency or computer struggles, especially in situations you mentioned above.

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Re: Additional Analog Outputs via ADAT

Post by digitaldrummer » Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:46 am

just yesterday I used "UAD record mode" so that the plugin effect was printed. I had an 1176 on the vocalist (he liked singing into the compressor) but I think he kept moving around so the levels were pretty inconsistent and sometimes it would hit my converter too hard and go into the red. I switched to record mode and it worked just fine and sounds good too. no overages and the compression is already there. add some reverb/delay. done.
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Re: Additional Analog Outputs via ADAT

Post by trodden » Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:30 pm

I went with a "demo" unit of the Focusrite Clarett+ 8p from Sweetwater. $100 cheaper, 24-month financing,,, and if it doesn't work with my outdated shit, I can return it.

I figured it's ability to also work with my macbook for a mobile/location rig would be a good palate expansion in my services. I should be here by the weekend. Fingers crossed.

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Re: Additional Analog Outputs via ADAT

Post by vvv » Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:48 pm

digitaldrummer wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:46 am
... sometimes it would hit my converter too hard and go into the red.
FWIW, that's one reason why I like recording using 32bit float. As long as you reduce the track's level before saving, overs of about 3-6dB's are not audible - useful with screamers and, you know, lead guitarist/wankers.
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Re: Additional Analog Outputs via ADAT

Post by digitaldrummer » Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:01 am

one other thing I thought of that was initially part of my decision to go with an Apollo16 (or the Orion 32 that I had for a bit) is that since I'm recording a drum kit and sometimes use > 8 channels (ok, frequently use > 8 ), I wanted them all going through the same interface so they always had the same latency. When I had previous interfaces with ADAT connected to a second set of preamps, those preamps always had a different (slightly longer) latency (due to traveling through a different set of conversion and the ADAT interface itself). With an interface that has 16 or more channels, I could get all channels with the same latency and not have to calculate or adjust for which mic was on which interface, etc. Maybe I was overthinking it, but it is a real thing (and you can measure it). I suppose as long as you check for phase coherency it should be OK... or is it? I don't know... but if I ever have to replace my Apollo 16 I'll probably stick to an interface with 16 or more I/O in the main unit for this reason.
Last edited by digitaldrummer on Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Additional Analog Outputs via ADAT

Post by trodden » Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:58 pm

digitaldrummer wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:01 am
one other thing I thought of that was initially part of my decision to go with an Apollo16 (or the Orion 32 that I had for a bit) is that since I'm recording a drum kit and sometimes use > 8 channels (ok, frequently use > 8), I wanted them all going through the same interface so they always had the same latency. When I had previous interfaces with ADAT connected to a second set of preamps, those preamps always had a different (slightly longer) latency (due to traveling through a different set of conversion and the ADAT interface itself). With an interface that has 16 or more channels, I could get all channels with the same latency and not have to calculate or adjust for which mic was on which interface, etc. Maybe I was overthinking it, but it is a real thing (and you can measure it). I suppose as long as you check for phase coherency it should be OK... or is it? I don't know... but if I ever have to replace my Apollo 16 I'll probably stick to an interface with 16 or more I/O in the main unit for this reason.
Totally. Drums always go on whatever number of the 16 inputs on my 192. Back when I was on a Digi 001 and the AI-3, that was only 8 and 8. So I'd put all the close mics on the first 8, including OH's on one device, and then the room mics and sometimes the OH's on the next device. I don't miss those days, nor do I miss PT 6.4...

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Re: Additional Analog Outputs via ADAT

Post by trodden » Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:12 pm

I just discovered this genius 500 rack.

https://www.cranborne-audio.com/500adat

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Re: Additional Analog Outputs via ADAT

Post by jmele2 » Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:14 am

trodden wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:24 am
Hello.
I've been using this Alesis AI-3 for over 20 years to add additional analog ins and outs with my various pro tools rigs. Originally paired up with a Digi 001 from 2002-2011, then with a TDM Mix Plus, and then finally with my HD2 system along with a Digi 192. I got it modified/upgraded by Black Lion in 2012.

I think it finally died on me. I'm no longer getting output from it. Considering I paid a good amount to have it upgraded, I was never worried about it not being "good enough" along with my 192's ins/outs.

A lot has changed over the last 20 years. I'm looking at the following options. Get the AI-3 repaired, will it be worth the costs? Buy another used AI-3, and deal with it stock (don't really want to pay for yet another mod on an ancient piece of gear). Or, buy a second used 192. Or, something else? The only thing I see is the Behringer ADA8200, and for many reasons, i'm a bit wary of the quality. I won't be using the preamps, only the conversion via line ins and outs, mostly outs, because my 16 ins on the 192 are enough for the time being.

I'm completely ignorant if I can use any other interfaces, made within the last 10 years, along with my 192 via adat light pipe.

I also see a few Frontier Tango 24's on the used market, which would work for what I do, but I have no idea how they sound compared to my modded AI-3, a stock AI-3, or the Behringer unit.

Thanks.
There’s always the good old Mackie 800R. I’ve had one here for a long time. Knobs get a little noisy sometimes but it’s a real audio Swiss Army knife kinda thing for me. Also converters work up to 192k if that’s your thing…

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