Deluxe Yankee Hotel- a production master class

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losthighway
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Deluxe Yankee Hotel- a production master class

Post by losthighway » Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:29 am

Wilco has released their massive Yankee Hotel Foxtrot deluxe edition with an endless stack of early versions, demos, alternate mixes etc. For music makers familiar with the album it's very educational. So much to learn about production, arrangement, mixing from these less refined versions.

There are so many moments in early versions of album cuts where an unnecessary layer goes through half of the song and is dead weight, but in the final version it's on the perfect 10% of the song and makes it, as opposed to bogging it down. There are also absences of keys, guitar leads, and strings that clearly brought the tune home on the final version.

It's both an inspiring and daunting listen, because I can hear something similar to my own efforts in the inspired, but cluttery and unrefined attempts at these songs. What is hard to quantify is the thinking that took a kind of cool song with great lyrics, and some neat sound collage elements into a sharp arrangement/mix that elevates everything about it and knocks the listener over. Basically I'm just worshipping Jim O'Rourke right now because he's clearly the unsung genius of this famous album.

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Re: Deluxe Yankee Hotel- a production master class

Post by markjazzbassist » Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:27 am

i will have to check that out, it is a fantastic album, definitely a seminal record of that time/band.

personally i think Jay Bennett is the unsung hero of that album even though he was vilified in the documentary "i am trying to break your heart". he was kicked out of the band and they never sounded the same after he was gone. if you watch the documentary you can see a lot of the wierd shit that makes that album fun is from him. i get that most of the wilco faithful don't like jay because tweedy didn't, but musically i haven't been into anything they did since then. i get i have an outsider take.

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Re: Deluxe Yankee Hotel- a production master class

Post by mjau » Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:31 pm

YHF is such a cool blending of Jay Bennett and Jim O’Rourke, not to mention a great band and inspired songs. I’m just getting into this release, and agreed, it’s a high lesson in production and making great (and bold) choices.

I remember at the time of its release being bummed that it wasn’t Summerteeth part II. I definitely appreciate YHF for what it is now, and also glad they never attempted to rehash the Summerteeth thing. Probably my favorite Wilco effort.

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Re: Deluxe Yankee Hotel- a production master class

Post by Nick Sevilla » Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:07 pm

Got it. Should be interesting.

PS this is why I like Amazon's "Amazon Music" service. You don't have to get mad if you did not get the last collectible super edition of whatever. They also are among the top 3 payers of royalties (as far as how much.)
Last edited by Nick Sevilla on Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Deluxe Yankee Hotel- a production master class

Post by standup » Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:57 am

Yesterday I got the YHF double album in the mail. I’ll enjoy listening to it on vinyl while studying the gatefold LP jacket, it’ll be like I’m 20 again. Well, not really. But it should be fun.

The 7-LP deluxe set just sounds like work. Too much work.

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Re: Deluxe Yankee Hotel- a production master class

Post by numberthirty » Sun Oct 02, 2022 6:06 pm

markjazzbassist wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:27 am
i will have to check that out, it is a fantastic album, definitely a seminal record of that time/band.

personally i think Jay Bennett is the unsung hero of that album even though he was vilified in the documentary "i am trying to break your heart". he was kicked out of the band and they never sounded the same after he was gone. if you watch the documentary you can see a lot of the wierd shit that makes that album fun is from him. i get that most of the wilco faithful don't like jay because tweedy didn't, but musically i haven't been into anything they did since then. i get i have an outsider take.
Along that same line?

The violin playing that Max was kicking out in the "Not Quite Ready To Come Out Of The Oven..." versions of "Misunderstood" being played at the shows/bootlegs from before Being There was even on the shelves?

It is way, way more interesting than anything on YHF more than two albums before it was released.

Past that, O'Rourke was way more interesting as a part of the "Sonic Youth..." big picture.

Even when you throw in that O'Rourke/Tweedy acoustic show at Double Door.

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Re: Deluxe Yankee Hotel- a production master class

Post by numberthirty » Sun Oct 02, 2022 6:10 pm

mjau wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:31 pm
YHF is such a cool blending of Jay Bennett and Jim O’Rourke, not to mention a great band and inspired songs. I’m just getting into this release, and agreed, it’s a high lesson in production and making great (and bold) choices.

I remember at the time of its release being bummed that it wasn’t Summerteeth part II. I definitely appreciate YHF for what it is now, and also glad they never attempted to rehash the Summerteeth thing. Probably my favorite Wilco effort.
Straight talk?

The band played a record release show for Summerteeth at a Chicago Tower Records where they(well, not even "They...") were straight up fussing about how crazy the admittedly sketchy sound for the show in question was.

I am still of a mind that said sketch live sound had a whole lot to do with the for that YHF would eventually take.

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Re: Deluxe Yankee Hotel- a production master class

Post by numberthirty » Sun Oct 02, 2022 6:15 pm

markjazzbassist wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:27 am
i will have to check that out, it is a fantastic album, definitely a seminal record of that time/band.

personally i think Jay Bennett is the unsung hero of that album even though he was vilified in the documentary "i am trying to break your heart". he was kicked out of the band and they never sounded the same after he was gone. if you watch the documentary you can see a lot of the wierd shit that makes that album fun is from him. i get that most of the wilco faithful don't like jay because tweedy didn't, but musically i haven't been into anything they did since then. i get i have an outsider take.
One other thing about that guy and the album in question.

Every live show that I saw for Summerteeth?

Jay was going "Beyond Full On..." E.L.O. when it came to the keyboards.

While I don't think that there was a "Bad..." guy when it came to YHF?

There is only so big of a role that the "E.L.O." end of things can go before it is impossible to see it as anything other than "Hey, That's Pretty Heavy On The E.L.O."

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Re: Deluxe Yankee Hotel- a production master class

Post by losthighway » Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:08 pm

numberthirty wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 6:15 pm
markjazzbassist wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:27 am
i will have to check that out, it is a fantastic album, definitely a seminal record of that time/band.

personally i think Jay Bennett is the unsung hero of that album even though he was vilified in the documentary "i am trying to break your heart". he was kicked out of the band and they never sounded the same after he was gone. if you watch the documentary you can see a lot of the wierd shit that makes that album fun is from him. i get that most of the wilco faithful don't like jay because tweedy didn't, but musically i haven't been into anything they did since then. i get i have an outsider take.
One other thing about that guy and the album in question.

Every live show that I saw for Summerteeth?

Jay was going "Beyond Full On..." E.L.O. when it came to the keyboards.

While I don't think that there was a "Bad..." guy when it came to YHF?

There is only so big of a role that the "E.L.O." end of things can go before it is impossible to see it as anything other than "Hey, That's Pretty Heavy On The E.L.O."
You can hear some pretty clear examples of this on the early versions and read about it in the interviews. O'Rourke peeled back some layers to reveal some beauty. Don't get me wrong, some of the key remaining layers are pure Bennett and many of the songs were cowritten with him. He just got lost in the album and fought against Tweedy's decision to have someone he trusted reorient.

I just can't get over all of the ways the album was almost not particularly great and then came out a masterpiece.

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Re: Deluxe Yankee Hotel- a production master class

Post by joninc » Thu Oct 06, 2022 3:02 pm

I'd heard some of these alternate versions before but I'm also enjoying going back and hearing how the songs morphed and of course we know the album versions so they seem "best" or "correct" but in general the early versions are kind of less nuanced/subtle and a little more plain in some ways. It's amazing to me to think of having the luxury to mix an album and then go back to the drawing board and re-work and re-record in some cases and remix everything. It was very clearly worth the effort and expense.

Been re-watching the doc too and man is it uncomfortable to watch the scenes where Jeff and Jay are kind of butting heads in the control room over an edit they want to create. It's hard to not to Jay as being very obstinate and difficult - my friend wondered if the situation was clouded by substances...

anyways - a great record by a great band and I just saw them a week or 2 ago in vancouver and it was a stellar show. the band are so dialed in. a real treat to watch them effortlessly flex through whisper soft country to wailing dissonance - and sometimes within the same song.
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Re: Deluxe Yankee Hotel- a production master class

Post by vvv » Sat Oct 08, 2022 9:40 am

In some ways, they are America's Radiohead.

The song-writing, the arrangements, the sequencing, Tweedy's voice, the performances in general and (for me) Nels Cline's in particular are noteworthy, and they are far more expansive than another, somewhat similar (without the alt-country part, of course) fave, The National.

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