New Waves Subscription model

[digitaldrummer]

I'm not trying to be like the other forums and pages out there (and simply bash...), but did anyone else get "The letter"?

I got it last night and all I could think was what a dumb idea! If I was going to sign up for a subscription (and I really don't like subscriptions) it won't be one of the Waves subscriptions. there are only 2 choices - get some crappy plugins, or get everything. The everything model is more than most any other subscription plan out there ($24.99/mo). And if you haven't heard, they will stop selling plugins (as of yesterday) and they didn't even allow everyone time to update their WUP. So if you have a current plan, then it will keep going until it expires (which can only be less than a year I think) at which point if you want/need another update, you have to go subscription and your "purchased" plugins are worthless (but you can continue using them until something breaks). I will just use my Waves plugins as is and if they ever stop working (due to an OS or DAW update) then I'll just find something else equivalent (UAD, Slate or Plugin Alliance are the most likely), but I won't go back to Waves. They have lost me forever with this BS.

I think subscriptions models can work for some people - especially if you are new to digital recording and haven't already invested in hardware/software. But what's wrong with subscription and purchase options (like Slate, UAD and PA) or maybe if Waves had allowed for a customized subscription model ( a tiered model wouldn't be half bad - get any 10 for this price, then 20 for this, etc and the price per plugin goes down as you add more...). They are not even offering any credit (that I've seen) to people that bought and paid for a lot of perpetual license plugins in the past.

so let me ask, would anyone here use the new Waves subscription model?

[digitaldrummer]

and I know I'm already replying to myself (never a good sign...) but as more and more software companies force everyone to a subscription model, maybe it's time to see one of the big names completely crash and burn? subscription is not good for everyone and is generally motivated by greedy corporate types looking to maximize profits by locking everyone into a monthly bill (cable, phone, utilities, etc.) - aka "recurring revenue".

[kslight]

I don’t like putting a lot of money in software in general, I’ve already invested and I’m not upgrading computers regularly so I don’t want subscriptions. I really don’t need any more EQs or compressors or whatever. If I made lots of money with music it’d be one thing, but I really don’t. So at least if I decide to sell a guitar or something I can relatively easily get my money back.

Let me ask…who is actually keeping Waves in business? To me they were the go to 20 years ago….but what have they done since then?

[cornsound]

I'm not too hip on this trend. I understand the need to make revenue/stay in business, but the approach just rubs the wrong way. I'm curious about the reasoning behind it, is it just driven by the accountants, consumer stupidity (everyone else is doing it, drool drool drool drool my payola) or is there legitimate piracy still going on with cracked VST's? I don't know if UA or Native Inst. or Izotope are doing subscriptions now, but their model seems okay-ish in that you purchase/register via their website and that's about it.

While looking for a new interface, I dived into Antelope Audio's stuff on the secondhand market and soon realized how they're kinda doing similar things, i.e. you need their software to log in etc. to use their specific plugins, get driver/software updates, and in testing that all out myself (sans an actual piece of thier equipment), noticed the control panel for one of their discontinued devices wanted to run a server(?) to operate.

[digitaldrummer]

Let me ask…who is actually keeping Waves in business? To me they were the go to 20 years ago….but what have they done since then?

not much...

[Scodiddly]

It's really just a case of "let's see what we can get away with" sometimes. Maybe it's an MBA driving it, maybe it's just that the alternative is to start laying people off. Probably greed, though.

I was just reading an article today about how Arm, a company that makes CPU's and such, was looking to start directly charging the companies that use their chips based on the price of the final product. In other words, your cell phone doesn't just have a $10 chip, it might now have a $50 royalty payment too.

[digitaldrummer]

my first legit Waves plugins was the Musician's bundles (2 I think) and then I dropped almost $500 for the SSL bundle -- and at the time, that was greatly on sale (this was way before the $29 plugin sale every day). I bought more plugins, paid for WUP a couple times. I'm sure I spent around $1K - maybe more, maybe less - which seems like a lot for a non-commercial studio. I'm not going to check because that will just make me hate this even more... but I could easily replace pretty much any Waves plugin with another and do the same job, so that's my plan moving forward.

[cornsound]

That's kind of what I've forced myself to do instead of spend spend spend. There are some pretty decent freeware VST's out there and sometimes you just have to wring them out a bit more than usual. I also still use ancient stuff like the very first Quadrafuzz and some old SoundHack and DigitalFishphones plugs. If it ain't broke, don't waste time looking elsewhere.

[kslight]

my first legit Waves plugins was the Musician's bundles (2 I think) and then I dropped almost $500 for the SSL bundle -- and at the time, that was greatly on sale (this was way before the $29 plugin sale every day). I bought more plugins, paid for WUP a couple times. I'm sure I spent around $1K - maybe more, maybe less - which seems like a lot for a non-commercial studio. I'm not going to check because that will just make me hate this even more... but I could easily replace pretty much any Waves plugin with another and do the same job, so that's my plan moving forward.

Oh yeah I definitely have purchased a couple waves bundles years ago, mostly to retain compatibility with someone else who had them on a PTHD rig. These days few things…1. Most of their plug-ins just look like carryovers from 20 years ago, unchanged. 2. Any plug-in purchase gets a lot of scrutiny…sales / etc have helped devalue anything, why pay $$$ for anything when I know many plug-ins eventually end up around $29 or less on a sale… 3. I’m not a computer programmer by trade, but how many different ways can one really code an EQ / compressor / etc.. yes I understand there is more going on than “-3db at 500hz” or whatever, there are nonlinearities and such. In theory, if you compare two EQ plug-ins and you tell them specific Q, frequency, and db, they should be doing more or less the same thing, right? But at the end of the day, how different is one modern plug-in to another behind the scenes?

[drumsound]

I won't be subscribing that's for sure. I have a few Waves things I like, but don't lean on them as much these days anyway. I now have UAD equivalents (though I think the Waves API2500 is a better version) so I'll use what's on my system more sparingly so when there's some sort of upgrade required and they go away I won't need to worry.

If somehow something I did in the past needed to be reworked, I'll get one month if there are a Waves things on them.

[digitaldrummer]

[how different is one modern plug-in to another behind the scenes?

totally agree. in the last 20 years there have been only a few new plugins from Waves. Some of them just got a "new look", in other words they just updated the graphics. Like you said, how much different is the EQ coding? it didn't change underneath. Most of the changes are graphics and compatibility with OS and DAW changes. but to be fair, they are not alone in that. there are a lot of plugins that are going on 5, 10, 15, 20 years old and they are what they are - but would I now pay a subscription to use that same 20 year old plugin that I already bought years ago? That's the part that I don't like.

[digitaldrummer]

some comparison (my observations and not exactly exhaustive market research...)

Slate Digital (All Access) - everything for $149 year - I like their plugins but also not likely to do the subscription because I bought most of the plugins that I wanted to use (before they introduced the subscription model) and they also have not offered any credit or such. But they also did not turn off the ability to buy single plugins and so far they have supported them "for life" (meaning any updates are free).

UA Spark - $149.99 for "everything", although everything is not a much as other offerings since they just got started. The plugins are good though but I won't do the subscription since I already own quite a few UAD plugins so they give the native version to us for free (which I appreciate because sometimes that helps offload the DSP a bit - funny how that used to be the other way around?).

Plugin Alliance - price varies from $14.99/mo to 29.99/mo, but you "build equity" as you rent. in other words, each plan allows you to get some number of plugins for free every year that you pay the rent (3, 6, or 10 free a year). So even though you are paying a subscription, after time, you end up with plugins that you own outright too. Not only that, but PA still allows you to purchase any plugins and they frequently have sales (kinda like Waves did all the time) if you are on their email list and many of the plugins exist in native form here (Brainworx) and are exactly the same underlying code as some UAD plugins that require UAD hardware and DSP - but you can get them a whole lot cheaper here. So while I am unlikely to join their subscription at this point (I have lots of PA plugins) , it's the best subscription offering I have seen so far.

Waves - $14.99/mo for mostly really old stuff ( I do use some of the Renaissance plugins but I could so easily use something else - I use the SSL E channel a lot, but I also use the G-channel and that's not in this bundle). $24.99/mo (that's $299.88/yr) for everything, which also includes a bunch of older stuff that is pretty useless. They do have some kind of new AI plugin, but TBH I would not want that on my system because I don't actually trust Waves (and I turn my internet connection off unless I'm updating something). no credit for previously purchased plugins, and you don't get to keep anything and I'll bet it requires an internet connection to license it all (so you can't use it once it is offline or expires).

[digitaldrummer]

If somehow something I did in the past needed to be reworked, I'll get one month if there are a Waves things on them.

That's a good idea, although I would probably first see if I could re-create it with something else. But if I couldn't then a one month (or maybe the 7-day free trial if that still exists down the road) could be all that's needed.

[kslight]

some comparison (my observations and not exactly exhaustive market research...)

Slate Digital (All Access) - everything for $149 year - I like their plugins but also not likely to do the subscription because I bought most of the plugins that I wanted to use (before they introduced the subscription model) and they also have not offered any credit or such. But they also did not turn off the ability to buy single plugins and so far they have supported them "for life" (meaning any updates are free).

UA Spark - $149.99 for "everything", although everything is not a much as other offerings since they just got started. The plugins are good though but I won't do the subscription since I already own quite a few UAD plugins so they give the native version to us for free (which I appreciate because sometimes that helps offload the DSP a bit - funny how that used to be the other way around?).

Plugin Alliance - price varies from $14.99/mo to 29.99/mo, but you "build equity" as you rent. in other words, each plan allows you to get some number of plugins for free every year that you pay the rent (3, 6, or 10 free a year). So even though you are paying a subscription, after time, you end up with plugins that you own outright too. Not only that, but PA still allows you to purchase any plugins and they frequently have sales (kinda like Waves did all the time) if you are on their email list and many of the plugins exist in native form here (Brainworx) and are exactly the same underlying code as some UAD plugins that require UAD hardware and DSP - but you can get them a whole lot cheaper here. So while I am unlikely to join their subscription at this point (I have lots of PA plugins) , it's the best subscription offering I have seen so far.

Waves - $14.99/mo for mostly really old stuff ( I do use some of the Renaissance plugins but I could so easily use something else - I use the SSL E channel a lot, but I also use the G-channel and that's not in this bundle). $24.99/mo (that's $299.88/yr) for everything, which also includes a bunch of older stuff that is pretty useless. They do have some kind of new AI plugin, but TBH I would not want that on my system because I don't actually trust Waves (and I turn my internet connection off unless I'm updating something). no credit for previously purchased plugins, and you don't get to keep anything and I'll bet it requires an internet connection to license it all (so you can't use it once it is offline or expires).

I think as far as “larger” plug-in entities go (I understand Plug-in Alliance is not really one development company but many under one brand) PA has probably got the most fair pay structure with choices for different needs. And unbuggered free trials is great, friendly for multiple computers as well. If any new person was asking what plug-ins to buy beyond the stock daw plug-ins…I’d probably point them there.


IMHO many developers are just throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks, as far as how much they can charge and what kind of subscription and licensing type shenanigans they can get away with. If you don’t buy into their model, maybe they’ll change it down the road. I haven’t given Avid $1 in years.

[analogika]

I use their Abbey Road stuff all the time.

This really sucks.