non-paying clients?

[digitaldrummer]

how do you deal with non-paying clients? I've had some in the past that were always late and I had to remind them (pressure them) and it got to where if they wanted studio time, I made them pay ahead in cash. But I feel weird doing that because it makes the whole thing a little awkward. I'm asking them to trust me to do the job, but I can't trust them?

I'm waiting on another client (that currently is ghosting me) and sent one gentle reminder so far. I've worked with them before and they paid so not sure what the deal is this time. It's not like I'm out anything but my time, but would hope that most everyone in the world recognize that you pay for services rendered (although I know it's not true - I just like to hope that it's true...).

I did have one that disappeared for over a year and then came back, and actually paid me, but it was because he was hoping I would choose his business for something (I did not). Luckily I did not just delete the tracks. I have lots of backup hard drives. I don't usually delete anything unless I've given it all to the client and then I don't want to be their backup... (hand over responsibility, if you know what I mean).

[Recycled_Brains]

how do you deal with non-paying clients? I've had some in the past that were always late and I had to remind them (pressure them) and it got to where if they wanted studio time, I made them pay ahead in cash. But I feel weird doing that because it makes the whole thing a little awkward. I'm asking them to trust me to do the job, but I can't trust them?

What's "weird" is the assumption that they can pay whenever they feel like it. They made it awkward. Let them deal with that. It's not on you.

I'm waiting on another client (that currently is ghosting me) and sent one gentle reminder so far. I've worked with them before and they paid so not sure what the deal is this time. It's not like I'm out anything but my time, but would hope that most everyone in the world recognize that you pay for services rendered (although I know it's not true - I just like to hope that it's true...).

I did have one that disappeared for over a year and then came back, and actually paid me, but it was because he was hoping I would choose his business for something (I did not). Luckily I did not just delete the tracks. I have lots of backup hard drives. I don't usually delete anything unless I've given it all to the client and then I don't want to be their backup... (hand over responsibility, if you know what I mean).

Your clients suck. Get paid, then drop them.

"It's not like I'm out anything but my time..." Time is the most valuable thing we have.

[AndersonSoundRecording]

how do you deal with non-paying clients? I've had some in the past that were always late and I had to remind them (pressure them) and it got to where if they wanted studio time, I made them pay ahead in cash. But I feel weird doing that because it makes the whole thing a little awkward. I'm asking them to trust me to do the job, but I can't trust them?

I'm waiting on another client (that currently is ghosting me) and sent one gentle reminder so far. I've worked with them before and they paid so not sure what the deal is this time. It's not like I'm out anything but my time, but would hope that most everyone in the world recognize that you pay for services rendered (although I know it's not true - I just like to hope that it's true...).

I did have one that disappeared for over a year and then came back, and actually paid me, but it was because he was hoping I would choose his business for something (I did not). Luckily I did not just delete the tracks. I have lots of backup hard drives. I don't usually delete anything unless I've given it all to the client and then I don't want to be their backup... (hand over responsibility, if you know what I mean).

Money conversations suck. Paraphrasing Ben Franklin: when two friends go into business together, everything should be spelled out in writing beforehand, so that they may remain friends when the business is done.

It's pretty common practice in our industry that nothing is "booked" without an upfront deposit (50% is not unreasonable). That deposit can be non-refundable if someone does not cancel more than 24 hours in advance, since you potentially may have turned away other work for that timeslot, thinking that it was booked. This is not something you need to be shy about - your studio is presumably your business, and you ought to be paid for your time. I presume you are not doing this for charity. Having these sorts of terms and conditions published makes you look professional.

You should also spell out that you are not responsible for archiving the files.

I always have some tangible proof of the agreed upon date and price, also the expected deliverables & such. If there's a dispute later, it's easy to see who is in the wrong. It doesn't have to be an official "contract", if that makes you nervous - an email spelling all of these things out can suffice. Be sure to compel a response.

I'm sad to say that the few times I've been outright stiffed, it's been by someone I knew as a friend.

In other cases where remuneration proved difficult, one was a new client I got on a referral, whom I ended up pursuing for a year to get paid. Eventually, subtle threats of action in small claims court got the cheque moving in the right direction.

Another time, an organisation I had worked with regularly for a number of years suddenly didn't respond to an invoice. In this case, it was an issue for me because I had put out money hiring crew and kit to do the job, and it hadn't occurred to me that I might get stuck holding the bag. It took a year, and I eventually resorted to putting accumulating fees on the invoice that I sent out monthly, which enraged them. They threatened me with legal action, which I pointed out was laughable since it was they who owed me money. Eventually they capitulated and payed the original amount due.

Regardless, in each of those cases, the client was quietly fired - no announcement, but I won't be available on any date they would call me about (unless they volunteered to pay the whole fee in advance). I've had cases where the client was upfront that they would need some accommodation to pay my fee, and I am happy to do so; but if you try to shaft me, I will not be available for you again - even if my calendar were completely empty.

[Nick Sevilla]

I'm with Ryan.

Time is the only commodity that is worth more than anything else on the planet.

I've had a few non payers. If they are crappy enough, I out them to the community at large. Nice and loud for everyone to hear that they are bad clients.

[digitaldrummer]

yeah, I'm not saying that my time is not valuable, just that it's not like I gave them anything material. I did provide some rough mp3 mixes, but it's not like they took off with a guitar or amp or something. sure I can't replace the time either (it's gone). I'm still hoping they will come around and pay but if they don't there's no way I'm doing anything more until it's paid - or maybe I'll just delete all the tracks... or maybe I'll keep them just in case they do come back and then I will charge them upfront at a higher rate.

[vvv]

Funny enough, I am in court tomorrow AM re a client that owes me.

Mine involves a different bidness than recording, but:

1. my time is money, money buys food and booze, and they are stealing that from me;
2. there is always overhead (electricity, postage, phone, wear and tear) that even if not billed specifically is factored into my charges;
3. I'm a professional and expect/demand the respect I am due;
4. I don't want a reputation as being soft or too insecure to pursue deadbeats;
5. they are deadbeats - fcuk 'em and their fee-fees.

You should always have a contract and potential issues should always be addressed to make legal action (or at least its threat) economical and successful. The specifics of the work and product aside, consider charging interest for every 30 days overdue (statutory is 9% here, I use 7%), and make the slacker liable for appropriate costs and legal fees. Get the agreement signed and dated, with payment terms explicit ("due in 30 days" or "by [date]", etc.). Make sure they have to keep current with their address and phone number. If you are suspicious, get bank info (name and acct #) for collection as necessary - tell 'em why you ask for it. There are likely specimen basic contracts available online; one of those is better than nothing and don't be afraid to customize it (but if hand writing on typed doc have the customer initial the edits - might be better to re-type). In this state a small claim is one that is less than $10K - if more is owed consider getting a lawyer - typical collection fee is 25% here.

None of the above is legal advice and should not be considered same - if you want that, get a lawyer.

[kslight]

We have a couple clients like that at my day job …not necessarily dead beats but for one reason or another become delinquent on their accounts…though they generally come around when they want more work done. And when they have made their account current they graduate into a pay in advance type client. Just like how the real world works, if you have issues paying your creditors you will not have much of if any line of credit with anyone until you sort your shit out.

In the audio world I have had a few instances where payment takes years for whatever reason, but they do come around and pay. If it’s your sole income and or you are out more than time, I think it’s prudent to take a deposit that at least covers any of your expenses. And don’t give any deliverables until they are fully paid.

[Recycled_Brains]

A couple days to pay up is whatever. What you're describing is principle and any leniency reinforces a bullshit attitude that people can just be casual about paying for a services. Would they tell their fucking roofer or electrician "sorry bro, I'll pay ya when I can." Fuck no they wouldn't, but lots of bands think this is OK because we are often good-natured people who prioritize not feeling awkward about asking for money over taking care of ourselves.

Full-time gig / primary source of income or not... these people are taking advantage of you, and your time, and a commodity that they couldn't get themselves and had to hire a professional for. The assumption that they can then be casual about compensation is so out of hand. The sheer presumption that this is OK is insane.

I made a rate card to avoid the "talking about money sucks" thing. Says clearly on it that payment is do at the end of the last day of tracking and before any mix is delivered.

[digitaldrummer]

I did get it resolved. Many familiar discussions. I didn't get the email/text with the info, blah blah... But in the end it's paid up and back on track. One thing I will do in the future is to make sure I communicate via multiple methods (email, text, phone) to make sure the invoice is received and therefore remove any pathways to an excuse. And I can be more direct about a due date (if I am allowing them to pay later). I don't think any of my clients are really trying to rip me off (I'm not a commercial studio and most anyone in here has been recommended by word of mouth or many I already know from gigs around town or other connections). and if I find someone that is not playing fair, were done.