?Mono? what does it tell us, and how much should it matter?

[Waltz Mastering]

I check for mono compatibility quite a bit.

[farview]

A lot of people tend to forget about all the times they are listening to music passively instead of actively.

Obviously, when you sit down to listen to music you will do so on a device that is stereo. But at the grocery store, TV, Cell phone, and all the other stuff mentioned, mono compatability becomes a big issue.

I also agree that most stuff that doesn't collapse to mono well does sound like crap. But, when you're new at this, that super wide stereo thing sounds 'neat'. Neato can be mistaken for 'cool', and cool is good.

[losthighway]

I have 6 devices in my apartment for listening to music; 3 of them are mono. One clock radio, one shower radio, one small television in the bedroom. My celphone plays an mp3 ringtone; that's four. So: over half of the devices I use to listen to music collapse the signal into mono.

Edit: sorry that was too snippy for a decent joke-

game on

I guess my overall point was that getting phase right matters a lot. Most of the artists that come to me want to listen to their music on a good stereo, and they hope that people buy their cd or lp and listen to it attentively on a good stereo. Nothing I've ever done has been played as a ringtone or on a grocery store mono speaker. Not much of the music I listen to has been used in those domains all that much either. My lack of interest in listening to mono won't necessarily prevent me from creating mixes that collapse to mono decently, nor would it keep me from using it as a test to check phase.

I just enjoy music too much to listen to any of it in mono. It takes little effort for me to appreciate a recording at home, or on the go in stereo. Most of my clients have the same orientation, which could lead me in an insular (and possibly slightly pretentious) way to think that no one listens to mono much. It's more: most people that care about music listen to mono by choice unless they're checking phase.

[JGriffin]

I have 6 devices in my apartment for listening to music; 3 of them are mono. One clock radio, one shower radio, one small television in the bedroom. My celphone plays an mp3 ringtone; that's four. So: over half of the devices I use to listen to music collapse the signal into mono.

Edit: sorry that was too snippy for a decent joke-

game on

I guess my overall point was that getting phase right matters a lot. Most of the artists that come to me want to listen to their music on a good stereo, and they hope that people buy their cd or lp and listen to it attentively on a good stereo. Nothing I've ever done has been played as a ringtone or on a grocery store mono speaker. Not much of the music I listen to has been used in those domains all that much either. My lack of interest in listening to mono won't necessarily prevent me from creating mixes that collapse to mono decently, nor would it keep me from using it as a test to check phase.

I just enjoy music too much to listen to any of it in mono. It takes little effort for me to appreciate a recording at home, or on the go in stereo. Most of my clients have the same orientation, which could lead me in an insular (and possibly slightly pretentious) way to think that no one listens to mono much. It's more: most people that care about music listen to mono by choice unless they're checking phase.

Hm. 95% of everything I mix is gonna end up on a clock radio someplace, so my perspective will pretty obviously be the polar opposite of yours.

Plus: +1 on farview's point about passive listening.

[losthighway]

Hm. 95% of everything I mix is gonna end up on a clock radio someplace, so my perspective will pretty obviously be the polar opposite of yours.

Plus: +1 on farview's point about passive listening.

That might just mean you are way more financially successful as an engineer than I am. Which is totally sweet for you. I make a lot of records that come out hand numbered with 300 copies and a tiny insular following. Which is cool, but an obscure and minuscule section of the music buying public.

I guess passive listening is probably the biggest market. People who do well probably have to think about things in this way, much more than I do.

[JGriffin]

Hm. 95% of everything I mix is gonna end up on a clock radio someplace, so my perspective will pretty obviously be the polar opposite of yours.

Plus: +1 on farview's point about passive listening.

That might just mean you are way more financially successful as an engineer than I am. Which is totally sweet for you. I make a lot of records that come out hand numbered with 300 copies and a tiny insular following. Which is cool, but an obscure and minuscule section of the music buying public.

I guess passive listening is probably the biggest market. People who do well probably have to think about things in this way, much more than I do.

No, it just means I mix stuff that's headed for a different destination. I wasn't boasting or bragging or trying to one-up anyone. Just explaining my perspective.

...and believe me, I ain't all that financially successful.

[farview]

nor would it keep me from using it as a test to check phase.

Phase is really the only reason your mixes would collapse in mono. If you are using the mono button to check phase, you are essentially doing the same thing.

[Jitters]

The whole issue of translation aside, I still find mono very useful, and I check often when I mix. If something goes sideways in mono I go back to stereo and listen with a new ear. By the time I've fixed that thing to where it works well in mono, it almost always sounds in stereo as well.

[losthighway]

Hm. 95% of everything I mix is gonna end up on a clock radio someplace, so my perspective will pretty obviously be the polar opposite of yours.

Plus: +1 on farview's point about passive listening.

That might just mean you are way more financially successful as an engineer than I am. Which is totally sweet for you. I make a lot of records that come out hand numbered with 300 copies and a tiny insular following. Which is cool, but an obscure and minuscule section of the music buying public.

I guess passive listening is probably the biggest market. People who do well probably have to think about things in this way, much more than I do.

No, it just means I mix stuff that's headed for a different destination. I wasn't boasting or bragging or trying to one-up anyone. Just explaining my perspective.

...and believe me, I ain't all that financially successful.

What's with the lack of rich engineers around here? Now you got me curious with your 'clock radio' comments, do you work in radio?

[JGriffin]

Hm. 95% of everything I mix is gonna end up on a clock radio someplace, so my perspective will pretty obviously be the polar opposite of yours.

Plus: +1 on farview's point about passive listening.

That might just mean you are way more financially successful as an engineer than I am. Which is totally sweet for you. I make a lot of records that come out hand numbered with 300 copies and a tiny insular following. Which is cool, but an obscure and minuscule section of the music buying public.

I guess passive listening is probably the biggest market. People who do well probably have to think about things in this way, much more than I do.

No, it just means I mix stuff that's headed for a different destination. I wasn't boasting or bragging or trying to one-up anyone. Just explaining my perspective.

...and believe me, I ain't all that financially successful.

What's with the lack of rich engineers around here? Now you got me curious with your 'clock radio' comments, do you work in radio?

My day job is at a studio that's part of an ad agency; I record/mix radio and TV commercials. Not making records for local bands but the principles of the mix are the same: all the music/effects work in my spots has to hold up in mono.

re: Rich engineers. That's the top 1% you're talking about, the guys who work on multiplatinum albums or are rerecording mixers on major motion pictures. A friend of mine who's an HR professional did a salary survey for me last week, and the results are depressing at best. Of course, the mitigating factor there is the number of engineers reporting their income for such a survey is much lower than, say, the number of accountants or lawyers who do the same...so the figure might not be truly representative.

[Nick Sevilla]

As much as it pains me I make sure to always check mixes in mono before printing, as I?m sure many of us also do as a form of habit.

My question is what?s worth worrying about?

Obviously, if your vocals have disappeared or your kick drum all of a sudden sounds thin as hell you would want to make some adjustments; but what of things like hard panned guitars? Sometimes when I have hard panned guitars and engage the ?mono? switch I can still hear the guitars but they have lost much of there depth. Do I freak out and completely remix the whole song? No, I may pull the guitars in from 100L 100R to 90L 90R, but I?m not really that concerned

Am I crazy?

I understand that many folks still listen too music in mono, cell phones, clock radios, and lets face it most peoples home stereo setup may as well be mono with how close or far they set up the speaker pair.

How much does a mono reference affect your mix choices?

I usually always start final mixing in mono. I get a balance between all the elements without using any eq or compression, or any time based fx, like reverb etc.

This helps me in various ways :

1.- By listening to the mix like this, frequency build up problems become very apparent early one, and can be dealt with more accurately ( reduce 200 Hz on which instrument? ... the less important one, of course)

2.- Phase issues come to light more easily. You'd be surprised how much stereo recording actually can suck, and is not needed at all in a good arrangement. So many records get done with all stereo instruments that could be mono... it's sick. My pet peeve is stereo guitars and keyboards that have minimal or no actual stereo information. That is just plain silly. I usually pick one side of these type of stereo instruments, and get rid of the other side. This helps in keeping those particular instruments FOCUSSED in the stereo field. It's easier to place them in a soundstage.

3.- The vocal level. This is probably the most important aesthetic aspect of a mix. Different styles of music have different levels of the lead and background vocals, and it is a lot easier to get the correct balance in mono. It simply takes less time to get there.

Cheers

[ashcat_lt]

My pet peeve is stereo guitars and keyboards that have minimal or no actual stereo information. That is just plain silly. I usually pick one side of these type of stereo instruments, and get rid of the other side. This helps in keeping those particular instruments FOCUSSED in the stereo field. It's easier to place them in a soundstage.

This seems to be unrelated to the issue raised as #2. I wanted to just mention that many DAWs seem to default every track to stereo, even with a mono source. If one is not paying attention one can end up recording twice as much information as necessary.

[mojobone]

I also start every mix in mono, won't touch a panpot 'til I have levels and front to back soundstage sorted out, and for mostly the same reasons noeq mentioned, plus these two; I've heard some wide and wonderful mixes get really small in a hurry when passing under a bridge while listening to FM radio, AND some folks only have one ear that works.

[Nick Sevilla]

My pet peeve is stereo guitars and keyboards that have minimal or no actual stereo information. That is just plain silly. I usually pick one side of these type of stereo instruments, and get rid of the other side. This helps in keeping those particular instruments FOCUSSED in the stereo field. It's easier to place them in a soundstage.

This seems to be unrelated to the issue raised as #2. I wanted to just mention that many DAWs seem to default every track to stereo, even with a mono source. If one is not paying attention one can end up recording twice as much information as necessary.

I'm on Pro Tools HD, which creates tracks according to what you tell it, not any "default"... which DAWs have you seen doing this automatic stereo track-making?

Cheers

[ashcat_lt]

I'm using Sonar now. When I "Add Audio Track" it always comes up as stereo. I have to click the "Mono/Stereo" button before recording, or it will record in stereo. Even if the source is set to a single mono input, it just records the same thing on each side of the stereo file. Pretty sure I've seen this in Cubase as well.

I'd be willing to bet there's a setting somewhere in one of the 14 "Options" menus (ok, maybe I exaggerate a little) to tell it to default to mono...

On a related note, many times the "Bounce" or "Export Mix" functions default to stereo as well. If you've got clients bouncing tracks in their projects down to .wav for you to mix, this might be another place you're ending up with "meaningless" stereo tracks.