Kids with lots of recording equipment

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

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Gentleman Jim
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Post by Gentleman Jim » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:40 pm

cgarges wrote: I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm seriously asking.
Then I won't be snarky either, (anymore), I'll seriously answer.

Yeah, it's a fact of life that others may appear to have an easier road than us. But that doesn't prevent the temporary frustration we may feel when we're face to face with that fact.

This forum is supposed to be about "Engineer/Client/Artist Relations." In your introduction to the thread you say,
"This is where you can post questions or comments about dealing with clients, artists, studio owners, engineers, interns, and/or other people you might find in a recording environment."
Well, AstroSounds has a concern about the effect this competitor might have on his ability to get clients when the competitor has flashier gear - and more of it. That's explicitly what the fourth paragraph of his post is about.

He's received a few replies that suggest that if his results are better then he'll win out in the end, and I suggested that perhaps, based on my own anecdotal experience, this competitor won't be around very long. There were also a few people who essentially told him to ignore it. You were one of them, at least part of your posts were.

And then there were three people who basically came in and criticized the existence of the thread. Unfortunately, all three of those are people whose points of view I generally respect. I find that to be a bummer. As I said, I don't post in threads that I have no interest in. And I certainly wouldn't tacitly belittle someone for expressing a frustration that all of us have felt at least once or twice in our lives.

If my analogy that "Some people have more money, but everybody dies" offends you, then I'll be happy to edit it out. All you have to do is ask.


Sincerely,
Jim
Last edited by Gentleman Jim on Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AstroSounds
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Post by AstroSounds » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:08 am

And I certainly wouldn't tacitly belittle someone for expressing a frustration that all of us have felt at least once or twice in our lives.
Thanks.

End the thread if you want. Frustration comes and goes. It came. I posted. I received some advice. Now I move on.

chris harris
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Post by chris harris » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:12 am

This thread is worthless because it just bullshit jealousy, fueling offensive, nonsense speculation. As a young person who worked hard to be able to afford great gear, I find the assumptions in the first post to be super tacky. Assuming that this young man didn't start working until he was 18, is it really that strange that he may have saved up $13,333 a year to invest in gear?!?! Maybe he sold a great song to Disney. Maybe he mowed lawns every summer since he was 14? Maybe he won the powerball. Maybe it was a loan from a rich relative? What fucking difference does it make?

Getting jealous of someone who has more than you, and then judging them for it without knowing them is tacky.

It's a bad thread, not because it's not interesting to me, but because of the offensive assumptions. It's not a lot different than suggesting that a successful woman MUST HAVE slept her way to the top.

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Post by chris harris » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:17 am

Someone will always have more than you. You'd be better served by advice for dealing with jealousy. Offensive assumptions aren't the answer. There are a lot of young people out there who have more gear than you AND know a lot more about using it.

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Post by AstroSounds » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:53 am

You're right. I am making an assumption based on one 30 minute conversation and 30 years of experience dealing with people. That is wrong of me.

I want to stress that I'm not complaining about his gear and this seems to be the reoccurring misunderstanding in this thread. I am not jealous of his gear as much as I am bothered by watching the rich get richer, and I assumed he started his burgeoning career wealthy through little effort of his own. That's a tacky assumption.

Maybe he's like subatomic pieces and he busted ass and had no rich relative financing him or paying for his education or his rent. And by mowing lawns in Michigan for 2 years or selling songs to Disney he was able to save over $20,000 a year to spend on recording equipment while in college. If so, good for him. He's a harder worker/more frugal guy than me.

In hind sight I think my complaint is more of a broader political statement derived from growing up around kids who have no idea what a student loan was or had grandparents buy them an upright bass and then ask me why I needed a job in college. So "politics" is probably a good reason why this isn't a "people skills" thread.

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Post by chris harris » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:03 am

I used to feel the same way about rich kids backpacking around Europe after high school. Then I grew up, paid my own way to Europe and got to smell those rich backpacking kids. My trip was much more luxurious than theirs. :)

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@?,*???&?
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Post by @?,*???&? » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:01 am

cgarges wrote:
subatomic pieces wrote:
ipressrecord wrote:*reads thread, gets back to making music*
I know. Worst thread ever.
Really.

Please tell me why this thread should stay.

Some people have more money than others.

The end. Amen.

Done.

End of discussion, right?

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
I'm not so sure. I think this is a regional thing. Has anyone seen a complaint like this from another area of the country?

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Post by kslight » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:57 am

I think that you just need to work on finding your own niche...having the most expensive gear in town is probably not a great business plan/market opportunity unless you've got tons of clients that can pay for it. I really think that once you capture the buzz words that your clients want how flashy your gear is doesn't matter as long as you can make it sound good.

Case in point...I have a client friend that is in one of the largest metal bands in the world...consequently he has a lot more spare cash than me.. He has two large equipment racks full of probably $100k worth of gear that he hauls with him to whatever studio they record at (and half of this rig is used to record their concerts). Sometimes he engineers himself...and it's usually not great...I kind of joke that I could do better with a Mackie and a set of 57s than he can with a rack of Neves and a locker of Neumanns.. It's frustrating as hell to me that I can only afford much lesser gear and he can just buy whatever fancy gear he wants whether or not it improves his recordings...but what can you do? Just let him hire me to use his gear instead...

Also I manage a company in the printing industry, and contrary to much of our competitors...we are busy and growing. We don't get there by buying or leasing brand new equipment (which each machine costs an SSL)...we pay cash for used older machines. They aren't the best but it has kept us in business because we can always charge less than our competitors with a heavily reduced overhead...they can't even touch us pricewise unless they want to run themselves out of business. They have to find their own niche if they want to stay in business. I don't let the old equipment factor bother me at work, but my second shift guy just quit for another company because he wants to run new machines. More power to him...but if he gets a boner for $600k apiece machines then we are the wrong company for him. 3 weeks from now when he gets laid off (I've been there before) then maybe he will figure it out for himself...but all these printing companies going out of business are overextending themselves on credit to have top end equipment and the reality is that for 98% of the market, what we use is more than good enough (it's no secret that most of what we print ends up in the trash eventually)...there is only a very small market for people that want and will pay for the very best quality work.

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Jay Reynolds
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Post by Jay Reynolds » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:16 am

@?,*???&? wrote: I'm not so sure. I think this is a regional thing. Has anyone seen a complaint like this from another area of the country?
How are Norman, Charlotte, and Philly in the same area of the country?


That aside, I think some basic considerations have been missed here:

1. Did you actually see this gear, or was he telling you about it. Perhaps this guy is full of it?
2. How much did he spend on the actual build-out of his space? Who helped him design it?
3. Did he buy used, new, or both?

I'll agree with some of the earlier sentiments. If he really does have a lot of nice kit, partner up with the kid. If he's new to the market and is an Ok guy, it couldn't hurt. At least you'll have first dibs on the fire sale.
Prog out with your cog out.

Gentleman Jim
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Post by Gentleman Jim » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:58 am

werd clock wrote:
@?,*???&? wrote: I'm not so sure. I think this is a regional thing. Has anyone seen a complaint like this from another area of the country?
How are Norman, Charlotte, and Philly in the same area of the country?
I think he was talking about Michigan. AstroSounds is in Lansing, @?,*???&? is in Detroit. This is something @?,*???&? has brought up as a frustration in the past.

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sears
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Post by sears » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:34 pm

Nothing like envy and defensiveness to rip apart a community.

When something's bothering me I like to get it off my chest. Yesterday I couldn't get my two-year-old to sleep in the afternoon for three fcuking hours. I felt like a bad dad. It was nice to talk about it.

Can't we talk about envy?

How about this: before posting, people who are sympathetic with the OP promise not to question the motives of people who call this thread "bullshit," and people who think this thread is bullshit promise not to question the motives of people who are sympathetic with the OP. Does that work?

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Jeff White
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Post by Jeff White » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:13 pm

Hey AstroSounds & folks, sorry to have touched a nerve. Shitty of me. My apologies. Everyone has the right to rant on here. I shouldn't have posted that. I'll be more respectful in the future.

Jealousy is human nature and a fact of life. Needless to say I know a thing or two about it. What bothered me about the original post has been hashed to death already. Maybe I misunderstood and read it wrong. Regardless, I should have kept my mouth shut.

Again, I'm sorry.

Jeff
I record, mix, and master in my Philly-based home studio, the Spacement. https://linktr.ee/ipressrecord

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Nick Sevilla
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Re: Kids with lots of recording equipment

Post by Nick Sevilla » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:48 am

AstroSounds wrote:Maybe this is an inappropriate rant but I gotta admit to geting frustrated when I meet someone like I did today. This was a 21 y.o. with easily $40,000 worth of recording equipment in his collection. His mic locker alone probably out valued my entire studio. Oh, and he's been doing this for 2 years and is a college student.

It's nothing personal, he was a super nice guy, very cool, but I gotta wonder where he got the money for this stuff. Maybe he threw himself into credit card debt? Maybe he managed to get a reasonable loan from a bank? However, both those seem unlikely since he was nicely dressed sipping coffee at a coffee house. So I suspect significant parental contribution.

My parents did not have spare money to throw around when I was 21 and would have laughed in my face if I told them it was needed for recording equipment. So here I am scrimping and saving (and throwing myself into credit card debt) so I can eventually upgrade to some nicer (>$500) monitors after 4 years and this kid is getting jobs recording bands and using $3000 of mics on the drums alone.

I know gear is FAR from everything and great records can be made with minimal gear but convincing non-engineers/clients of this is very difficult. Shiny knobs and buttons = quality studio, right? So how does one compete against this?
Sounds like Daddy bought him some stuff.

He is still 21, so he won't know how to use his expensive toys for a while. Send him my email, so when he gets bored with the recording career, I can buy all the stuff off him...

Cheers
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.

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Re: Kids with lots of recording equipment

Post by chris harris » Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:48 am

noeqplease wrote:He is still 21, so he won't know how to use his expensive toys for a while.
Yeah man... Geoff Emerick didn't know shit about all of those expensive toys when he was engineering fucking Revolver at 21. :roll: Same with Nigel Godrich, who had to be totally clueless when he started working with Radiohead at 23.

Young people clearly have no business in recording studios!!!! :roll:

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Jon Nolan
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Post by Jon Nolan » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:18 pm

the thread is worthy because, in theory, we're an online "community," no? astro sound's frustration, and ones like it are familiar territory to me, anyway. i'm sure others feel the same way.

ultimately it isn't about "the kid in the coffee shop" or anyone else, right?
at least for me, it's usually a function of the struggles to get ahead and get better, and then some "symbol" of my frustration shows up and rents some space for free in my noggin for a day or two. s'all good. next week it'll be something else, i promise :)

very good advice from an old mentor: "keep your eye on the ball, not the players."

over an' out.
j-no

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