Recording Drums (Brave New World!)

[MoreSpaceEcho]

So then, your ambience will indicate where the guitar cabinet sits in a room and the snare will definitely rattle with the amp at all times then? What about the omni-present, non-directional characteristics of bass frequencies? So all mics should pick that up as well? Also, the singers mic, once compressed will bring up so much drum leakage your recording will sounding a mono-compressed mash of drums. Also, realize back in the day, people used to go for live vocals in the studio. I'd love to see some unsigned band recording with some kid in his basement do that and get something competent.

Dude, you haven't thought this through. Buy some more equipment and I guarantee you'll use it. The kids are using only a few mics because they can only afford a few mics.

and jeff was doing such a good job posting like a normal person for awhile. oh well.

i try and have a bunch of mics ready and patched so i can just throw them up and get moving fast. i also always try to get the drummer over a day early so we can spend a little time messing around without boring the rest of the band to tears. this doesn't happen nearly as often as i'd like though...

i don't care about more/less mics so much, but one pet peeve of mine is engineers who seem to always record people the same way, regardless of how they play/style of music, etc. i've mixed a bunch of stuff for this one band who have absolutely Thee Sickest Funkiest Drummer Ever, and yet every time i get tracks it sounds like a D112 stuffed way the hell in the kick and a 57 gaffer taped to the top snare head. and big crazy wide overheads. ANNOYING! that approach would be great for a metal drummer but c'mon...i dunno how you could hear those sounds back in the control room and think it sounded appropriate for a funk/hip hop record....

[VelvetoneStudios]

Wow, this post went nuts!! My main point in my original posting was that so many people on forums like this one extoll minimal mic setups that bands, engineers, and producers with more experiance reading how the pro's do it than actually doing it, sometimes request/demand techniques that aren't "right" for the song. I'm really not slamming minimal setups at all, just trying to get some less seasoned folks to be open to different approaches. When I made my first album we spend 3 DAYS setting up the kit, trying different heads, spots in the room, tuning,micing,etc. Other side... when I record bands with budget issues, I try to get them to use most of my house kit which I know like my hand and keep miced up, and I always sit with the band and listen to a few CD's of the genre and overall production style that they're envisioning, so I dont end up wasting their time with a setup that will require hours of tweaking later to fit the track. The problems arise when people demand a certain setup that yields tough mix issues. Probably the most common I run into is a "Bonham" setup without Bonham (or his kit!) being there! Then mix time comes and I get " Can you get rid of those loud washy cymbals and punch up the toms?" ARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!! Even drummers who can balance their kits well tend to lose this ability as soon as the headphones go on. I think we all have to foster an atmosphere of constructive "Give and Take" between those on both sides of the glass. Musicians who insist on their gear and setup choices and then leave unhappy with their masters vs. engineers etc. who are completely set in their ways is becoming a real issue. In the "Golden Days" there was little blurring of the lines between artist and techs, but now that every act on the planet has GarageBand or an MBox or whatever, this forum can really help with the communication process.

[I'm Painting Again]

So many of us are moving away from close micing kits, it's getting snobby!! So many folks are of the mind that if you cant get great drums with 3 or 4 mics (or less!) you are a pitiful excuse for an engineer. I love the sound that minimal micing gets, as this treats the whole kit like one instrument,which it is. That said, turn on VH1 or Fuse or 90% of today's radio stations, and try to find a song that sounds like a live group in a room. Tracking a kit for a rock or agressive group without SOME close mics is just plain stubborn. The interaction between the snare and rack tom, or the way a floor tom can help a kick drum blossom is really pretty amazing -When you can hear it! I listened to the local Modern Rock and Alternative format radio stations for about 2 hours today on a top notch stereo and really didn't hear much more than kick and snare on 90plus% of the tunes. Cymbal crashes, rides, and hats don't get mixed anywhere near as hot as they really come off in the room or in a club. Toms are pretty much only there for the fills and certain breaks in a few tunes, but thankfully I didn't hear many that had that gated/triggered "Where did THAT come from?" feel. The "Leader" of the act I've been working with this past week insisted on 4 mic's on their 5 piece kit,-not counting 7 cymbals- because he read it on the web. The drummer has pretty good technique, but I spent 6 hours last night automating EQ on the OH and room mics to fit the overall kit and fills into the Emo/Screamo/Nu Metal style songs. The other side of the coin was a couple months ago, I was helping out a friend who had Soul/Motown/Stax type R&B band in his studio. The Producer on this session had us mic every damn thing that came out of the drum cases, because he wanted lots of options at mixdown. 4 piece kit, hats, ride, 2 crashes, and a tamborine in a nice room took up 14 tracks. Of course, at least this way we had the option, and we ended up scrapping all but 6 tracks. During a long and tedious mix, the Producer admitted that he had gotten carried away, but setting all of those mics and signal chains and levels etc. ended up costing at LEAST 2 days lockout rate by the time the mixes were close to what everyone was looking for. I mean come on!! I have yet to hear of one mic setup that works for all styles, drummers, and kits. We all have our go-to setups and tools, but I dont believe that anyone is good enough to use the same setup for every session and always serve the song. So basically, I'm just trying to say to those out there who are coming up in this age of overwhelming information and accessibly priced recording gear, it doesn't really matter how you get your drums on tape if it's right for the song. Let's try not to get caught up in the "right" way to record, just try to get the right recording.


THERE IS NO MAGIC FORMULA, THAT'S WHY THIS SCIENCE IS AN ART!!!!!!

AAARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!

Yeah I think I agree with you here..

the "magic formula" might be BALANCE..

that is to balance setup time and approach to the goal of the recording and plan your mic setup accordingly..

[Mankinda]

He had mics for close micing and a group of mics that he would go to for a more "live" room sound.

When I commented on how many mics he had up he said he now prepares this way for most sessions, that way he does'nt have to spend a bunch of time talking over each concept he can simply A/B the sound of what each set up sounds like and then get on with what the band/drummer likes.

I like that approach... I mean, we all like to jam a variety of mics on a guitar cab so we can blend and A/B later... its about getting the most flexibility, quickly, while yielding to the creative energy of the artist(s)... and its always better to shape the sound later by the deconstruction of quality sounds, rather than adding artificial qualities to a crappy sound that you didn't get right the first time.... like eq: its better to cut frequencies rather than to increase THD by boosting... its the old sculptor's analogy.

great thread... hang on to your lunch money

[VelvetoneStudios]

Mankinda... quick question.. Why would you want to go about deconstruct quality sounds???

[Mankinda]

Mankinda... quick question.. Why would you want to go about deconstruct quality sounds???

...reasonable question.... I should have phrased that better...

What I mean is that when you're recording, its better have more and be able to cut away (edit/blend) until you achieve your art.

I remember reading an interview with John Vanderslice where he said that if you want the best distorted sounds, start with the best quality sound at the tracking stage and "destroy" it from there...

that same principle sort of applies to tracking all the sounds on your record... Do the best job capturing euphonic sounds in tracking... gather enough that you can sacrifice one or two beautiful tracks to the art.

...I know: damn musicians and their inarticulate rambling...