I really hate recording on computers

[Alex Netick]

Yeah, I hear you. I personally think digital recording is pretty cool -- sounds good, and is cost effective. My only objection is the computer culture. With my old tape recorder, I didn't have to read a manual, or buy some 25 dollar book on how the software works, or get on some forum and get insulted by some little 15 year old kid who has too much time on his hands. I never really got beyond an 8 track 1/2 inch, so it wasn't overly complicated. I don't recall the maintenance being that big of a deal. The guy I sold my 8 track to is probably still using it 20 years later. I just miss the immediacy of it. I don't do it for a living, so whatever, maybe I'll pass my time some other way.

I never got into recording with computers because it seemed like I was recording with my eyes instead of my ears...

I like to get a mix in a nice space and then shut the computer monitors off for a while and take notes using only my ears.

I miss having a board and a tape machine, too, but then I remember all of the cool things that I can't do with a board and a tape machine. Not to diss tape or consoles, they're great, but I like working on my Mac and feel like I'm getting a lot of great work done these days. Oh, and how do you do film score work with an 8-track reel to reel and a mixing console? How do you do ADR work for feature length films on location? How do you adjust that ADR work to completely "animate" the characters in a film, matching the lips to the ADR after creating takes after takes from actors and voice talent that could only fly in for a day?

I'll keep working on my computers, thank you.

Jeff

[thethingwiththestuff]

My only objection is the computer culture. With my old tape recorder, I didn't have to read a manual, or buy some 25 dollar book on how the software works, or get on some forum and get insulted by some little 15 year old kid who has too much time on his hands.

are you being serious?

[RefD]

to this day i don't think my track count has ever exceeded 16.

*considers buying a pair of silver ADAT XT-20s and cornering the remaining supply of SVHS cassettes*

*very quickly reconsiders and goes back to his Cubase setup*

*dreams of adding an AI-3 and a 16 channel line mixer with decent EQs, inserts, four to eight groups and at least four effects busses*

or maybe just a Ghost 24 LE?

[RefD]

My only objection is the computer culture. With my old tape recorder, I didn't have to read a manual, or buy some 25 dollar book on how the software works, or get on some forum and get insulted by some little 15 year old kid who has too much time on his hands.

are you being serious?

i guess he means as opposed to some bitter 45 year old who has too much time on his hands.

*quickly deletes birth date from own profile*

[Jeff White]

A learning curve applies to most trades, passions, and pursuits in life. And women, too.

Jeff

[rwc]

I don't get that nonsense about computers being visually based and consoles/tape being audio based.

I look at a console, at a tape machine, just like I look at a screen.

Don't get me wrong, I wish I could find the threshold on the compressor for channel 64 on the SSL, or the phase switch on the 31102 module blindfolded - but, like with a PC, I have to look for it with my eyes before I see it. And on either it doesn't degrade my ability to get the sound I want.

[Alex Netick]

Man. This forum sucks.

My only objection is the computer culture. With my old tape recorder, I didn't have to read a manual, or buy some 25 dollar book on how the software works, or get on some forum and get insulted by some little 15 year old kid who has too much time on his hands.

are you being serious?

i guess he means as opposed to some bitter 45 year old who has too much time on his hands.

*quickly deletes birth date from own profile*

[rwc]

tape-op > you

[Alex Netick]

Yeah, whatever. Nothing personal. Maybe you're right. Who cares. At any rate, I'm only 39. Before this thread get's locked, I'll just drop it.

[apropos of nothing]

Hell, I'll throw in two cents here:
Computers are frustrating. I've been calling computer bulletin boards since the Apple ][ and 300 baud. I've built several computers from components, and I'm the designated geek in my group of friends.

Guess what: the interface on all computers is fundamentally broken.

Why? Because its all about the "container" metaphor. Nobody really gives a shit about the container, they just want their stuff. And god forbid that your container contains references to other containers. Hope that you copied that whole file system, and that the application is smart enough to relink those files.

One finger on the world sucks. Gets a little better with control surfaces, but hope the control surface doesn't make conflicts with other peripherals. (Yup, seen it happen on Macs, too.) Hope also that a year down the road when the next application you need only runs on the brand new operating system that your control surface or that your interface have new drivers for the new operating system (and that these work correctly as well), otherwise throw the whole system in the garbage and start over.

Yes, lots of cool stuff can be done. Yes, non-linear (when working) pretty well rules when used artistically. Yes, even non-physical delivery formats have the advantage of being more ecologically sound (after you discount the tons and tons of highly toxic crud being generated by Taiwan and dumped in China, or even in American landfills).

There's also a lot of potential for non-directed and inane use (see overcompression, section copying, overquantization, etc).

So: overall a mixed bag. I use a DAW regularly. I also have spent a lot of frustrating days messing with DLLs, registries and hardware that I would much rather have spent playing music.

When its working, its great. When it ain't, man, just chuck it in the lake now.

One finger on the world and the container metaphor gotta go though. Shit's stupid.

[sears]

I set up a cheap DAW, got it working and then ditched it and bought the DPS16. I like to record, not tinker with a bunch of stuff.

[Mradyfist]

Hell, I'll throw in two cents here:
Computers are frustrating. I've been calling computer bulletin boards since the Apple ][ and 300 baud. I've built several computers from components, and I'm the designated geek in my group of friends.

Guess what: the interface on all computers is fundamentally broken.

Why? Because its all about the "container" metaphor. Nobody really gives a shit about the container, they just want their stuff. And god forbid that your container contains references to other containers. Hope that you copied that whole file system, and that the application is smart enough to relink those files.

Well, that's great. So what is your alternative to the concept of directory trees? How do you reconcile the fact that there are numerous times when you might want to be able to name a file the same as another file? What about when you want to logically group files together with some type of metadata that has a meaning to you? I'm sorry if the concept of containers is difficult for you, but I've got 1700 high school students where I work who, for the most part, have figured out on their own how to deal with putting their files in folders. I hate to say it, but maybe the rest of the world is fine, and you are broken.

One finger on the world sucks.

I really don't get how people can NOT notice that keyboards are designed to use every finger you have, and pretty damn efficiently too. Not to mention the number of people who whine about how a mouse is "one finger", because the mouse that came with their iMac 5 years ago only has a single button. If you want, I can email you a copy of the XML file I use for my custom setup with my Logitech MX1000; I can play, pause, record, resize tracks to fit all vertically, resize tracks to maximize selected track vertically, zoom in to a single clip, zoom out to show the entire project, and navigate between locate points. All on my mouse hand, and all without actually having to move the mouse or even look at it. People spend more money on a mic cable than they do on their mouse, and then complain that it's not fun to use!

Yes, lots of cool stuff can be done. Yes, non-linear (when working) pretty well rules when used artistically. Yes, even non-physical delivery formats have the advantage of being more ecologically sound (after you discount the tons and tons of highly toxic crud being generated by Taiwan and dumped in China, or even in American landfills).

There's also a lot of potential for non-directed and inane use (see overcompression, section copying, overquantization, etc).

Tape machines brought us Alvin and the Chipmunks.

Sorry everybody, I tried to stay out of this conversation because I don't want to get pigeonholed into the job of DAW-defender, but sometimes I just feel like I have to speak up.

[percussion boy]

I have a lovely Otari half inch 8 track sitting in my kitchen; heads beautifully relapped, 100s of hours left on 'em, 6 boxes of virgin 456 close at hand. Mixboard racked up right below the Otari. I love how real instruments sound through that rig.

And frankly, I have no idea whether to keep it all or sell it.

I've had a bunch of daw misery, but here's the thing -- when it works, you don't need to buy tape. Tape costs now. And as much as I love my 4 track cassette deck, it kind of pales next to a plain jane DAW setup; say, a Firepod into Cubase LE or Sonar Home Studio with a couple soft synths. Maybe Elliott Smith could make an album on cassette, but I can't; with the DAW I can.

When the DAW works. If it works. God, I hope this time it works . . .

[fossiltooth]

Dude, get a life.

I've never called anyone a thief or this or that -- it's just insulting.

And if you're stupid enough to pay for your software

Don't make me come back there!

subatomicpieces, you did kind of jump on this guy based on an assumption. I can understand how you made that assumption, and sure, his general tone read as a little cocky and condescending to me as well, but you reacted a little too strongly.

Alex, I understand you felt wrongly attacked, but you were pretty quick to be a d*ck back, and throw sideways attacks all over the place as well. If you get defensive instead of working to explain the misunderstanding without getting personal, the situation will just escalate, and others will join in. Since I generally respect several of the people who were arguing with you, I was tempted to join in too!

It has nothing to do with "this forum suck(ing)". It's human nature.

One of you has got to step back, stop taking things personally, and re-frame the debate. Otherwise threads turn into total senseless bullsh*t.

Now shake hands and make nice.

[apropos of nothing]

I hate to say it, but maybe the rest of the world is fine, and you are broken.

I maintain that if I am broken, it is in the best possible way. I'm not intending to change. No matter how many coffee-fiends flame me on a messageboard.

Original poster was frustrated. Everyone jumped on him. I thought the guy needed some empathy. I feel frustrated with technology too, sometimes.

Its funny that you mention metadata. That's something I'm really interested in. I wish operating systems kept better track of it. Windows can't even keep track of when something was created properly. If you move an item between file-systems, the "created" date changes. Stupid. I would really like it if OSes didn't allow applications to change what programs open a given file-type.

Did I say I don't use a DAW? Cuz I've been using one regularly since 1993. I ain't going back to the 4-track now.

Just because something works adequately doesn't mean it can't work better.
And sometimes that lack of working better can be frustrating.

ETA: I'm with ya on keyboard equivalents. * / 0 alt-f4 f1 alt-tab start-arrow keys f11 cntrl-z/r/c/v Yeah, I'm all over it. But if you have to manipulate an on-screen element, its still the pointer and the button.