AUDIOPHILES

[MoreSpaceEcho]

i work on Lavry D/A->rotel 1080->B+W 805s.

i sit on my bed and listen to cds on a sony bookshelf system i got for $40 at the thrift store across the street.

i enjoy both in equal measures.

[Brian]

I mix in NS10's, so what does it matter what I listen on after that?
I had a Knight Stereo amp as my first monitor amp and it sounded great.
4312a's were nice when they were in front of me but they aren't anymore and I don't care.
I could never afford audiophile stuff.
I don't mix for audiophiles, but, I bet that's obvious.
I want everything, but, I'm not going to bother to get it.
I laugh at expensive cables. They laugh at me.
Expensive stuff makes me shuddr, except mic pre's with buttloads of headroom and big transformers, tight tolerances on caps and resistors, and HELL NO I don't own any of them either.

[Professor]

So I was thinking about this again today, and I guess I'd divide audiophiles into two broad categories - those who seek color vs. those who seek clarity.
I have a friend from college who discover the home hifi world about the same time I did, and he was a color audiophile. He wanted tubes, and vinyl, and character here, there, and everywhere... and it was rare to have a conversation in which the phrase "single-ended triode" didn't come up very often. On the other hand, I was a clarity guy, and I sought after clean, high-current solid-state, broad & flat frequency responses, and the words "fidelity", "clean", and "accurate" came up a lot.

But I'd offer that if you are one of those recordists who lusts after gear, then you are an audiophile.
You know the type I mean. If there's a copy of the latest Sweetwater catalog, or Full Compass, or Pro Audio Review, or other audio porn sitting in your bathroom where normal guys would have the Victoria's Secret catalog (or maybe the Sears catalog) then you are one of 'em.
Oh sure, you might not be able to afford the gear over which you lust, but you lust none the less.
You dream of the LA-2A compressor, or the UA 610 preamp, or the cherished and coveted U-47.
Might never have heard them, but still the lust.
Oh how all my recordings would be so much better if only I had a ___________.
Yup - that's being an audiophile.
And there's nothing wrong with it - indeed, that's really a great goal. You're going in search of something better. You're trying to improve the sounds you hear. For some guys the money is spent at the mics, for lots of people it seems to be at the preamps, for some it's at the converters or clocks, maybe the board, the software, the effects, the comps, whatever.

I've found that to do the variety of work that I do, and to do it at the quality level that I want to do it, I have to be both kinds of audiophile at each step in the chain.
I have super clean mics, and super character mics and lots in the middle. I have super clean preamps, super character preamps, and some in the middle. I have two different A/D converters, but they're both pretty equally clean. For effects, comps, EQ, etc. they're mostly software, so there's all sorts of clean, color and in between.
Oddly enough, the one place in the studio where I don't feel I can afford the option of coloration is at the speaker. After all, I need to know that the colors I'm hearing are actually being delivered on the recording, not grafted on top by the monitors. I'm not mixing on Avalon Acoustics Sentinels with a 16Hz-100kHz range +/-1dB, but I'm listening on JBL LSRs with a 25Hz-25kHz range +/-3.

So yeah, audiophilia doesn't stop at the speakers/amps/cables - it includes everything we do. And if you're chasing quality, whether that means color or clarity in your world, you're chasing the audiophile component. And just like the hifi world, cost doesn't always translate into audiophilia. An SM-57 might actually be the right color for your goal on one project while an Earthworks QTC might be the right choice on something else. Although if your speakers don't reveal any difference between the two....


Just a happy musing on the nature of what we do & why we do it.


-Jeremy

[Brian]

Most people haven't said imaging" (GregL did in this long thread).
I'd say putting things in space or making them move in space is important. Even in limited bandwidth situations. I heard a set of Celestion 7's once. If you put them the right distance apart and off the wall they sounded like you were in the room with the group. You could hear things move forward and back in the sonic field. That was very exciting to me and I still want a opair for their ability to pull that off with their small footprint. That and an OOOOLD pair of Kliptch Heresy's. They were bigger but did the same thing.

[AnalogousGumdropDecoder]

I think at times lo-fi can be much better than pure sterilized clarity. If you're listening to Nebraska and the sound quality starts to bother you, you might should check into being punched in the face.

[Professor]

Ah, but see that's the point. If you're listening to Rush, or Fiona Apple, or the Berlin Philharmonic, and they all sound like Nebraska, or a live bootleg of a Sex Pistols show or something, then there is something wrong.
And from the perspective of the engineer, we are responsible for the sound on the discs we produce. If the stuff coming out of the speakers sounds like crap then you need to know if it's the speakers or the recording you're about to deliver.
I figure that in the studio the speakers should reveal every damn thing I'm doing wrong.
At home, it's up to me if I want to gloss over the mistakes - or not.

You know, mp3 might be good enough for rocking out to Meatloaf while you're jogging or something, but in the studio it's good to record at 24bit/88.2k, or at least 24/44.1k.

Of course, I also think that lo-fi is something that you kind of have to earn. I know that sounds weird, but I come to it logically. I have a damn good understanding of how to create a hi-fi recording, and so if I choose to go lo-fi for an effect or stylistic thing, then it's coming from that perspective. But there are too many folks out there who can't actually get anything at all decent sounding, so they call it lo-fi... but not with any contrast. At that point it's a cop out, a convenient excuse. Obviously it's their choice to do it, and lots of people do put their stuff out, and we have the phenomenon of MySpace Music. I just think there should be a difference between "as good as I can make it", "as good as I'd like it to be", and "good enough to release to the public".
But that's really a whole different discussion.

-J

[Brian]

I think at times lo-fi can be much better than pure sterilized clarity. If you're listening to Nebraska and the sound quality starts to bother you, you might should check into being punched in the face.

F it, I'm checking in cuz I like it!
(where's that dang blackeye emoticon?)

[trodden]

Sure, I like nice speakers, just as much as I like well-recorded music. I strive for "quality" in every move that I make. However, if I was going to put on some Howlin' Wolf, or the Germs, or Beck's "One Foot In The Grave", the last thing I'd want to do would be to pump that sh*t through the bigs! Give me some auratones or a beat up old boombox please.

I often find it funny when audiophiles talk about the terrible crap they listen to on their wonderful systems. Just gimme some DI on any_old_thang.
Popeye vocals in all their glory

Fuck yeah... gimme gimme your hands gimme gimme your minds
gimme gimme this gimme gimme thaaaaaaaaaahaaaaahaaat...

[centurymantra]

I think at times lo-fi can be much better than pure sterilized clarity. If you're listening to Nebraska and the sound quality starts to bother you, you might should check into being punched in the face.

Nebraska is a great record, and I love the lo-fi aesthetic. In my mind though, there is a big difference betwen lo-fi and lo-resolution. Lo-fi can actually be VERY well recorded. That being said, whether the recording is lo-fi (ala 'Nebraska', Billy Childish, etc.) or expansive and hi-fi, it's still great to listen to this on a hi-res system that is pulling everything out...pulling all the MUSIC out. I totally disagree when people say something like 'Nebraska' is "better" on a clock radio due to the nature of the recording. Not that it can't be enjoyed on a boombox, mind you, but if your system is making it sound like shit...there's a problem with that stereo - not the music. I might even argue that the shittier the recording is, the more a nice system helps pull you into the music. Professor sort of touches on this to some degree, but (like I was saying on an earlier post on this thread) a good stereo should make everything sound more satisfying. The clarity and reproduction qualities will certainly show the flaws of a recording, but it shouldn't magnify them. It should listen through them and pull out all the musicality of a recording that's in there.

[Brian]

Everything sounds better on an old AC/Delco car radio.

[dynomike]

I might even argue that the shittier the recording is, the more a nice system helps pull you into the music. Professor sort of touches on this to some degree, but (like I was saying on an earlier post on this thread) a good stereo should make everything sound more satisfying. The clarity and reproduction qualities will certainly show the flaws of a recording, but it shouldn't magnify them.

I agree. A "flat" system will reproduce a limited bandwidth (lo-fi) recording accurately, not point and laugh at its flaws... On the other hand, a shitty system might actually amplify the shittiness, if the record and repro shit aligns...

Really fast, solid state hifi amps at home might not be the best option for smoothing out harsh recordings, though. 70's yamaha receivers, or I suppose most tube amps, will make everything sound a little smoother. I'll probably stick with my yammy at home until I can afford an *even smoother* option.

[AnalogousGumdropDecoder]

All mixdowns should be re-amped. All re-amped mixdowns should be re-amped with Fuzz Face.

In all seriousness, I totally agree. I like for the things I record to sound as clear and lush as possible. However, the music shouldn't but sterilized by it. Some timesa little crack in the voice or a little amp hum or tape hiss (or someone-tracked-the-drums-in-the-red-and-then-bounced-down) lends a little soul.

...said the Cure fan.