Pres: is variety really a good thing?

CedarSound · Post by **CedarSound** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:19 am

I agree with Subatomic Pieces...

I had a mackie years ago. Then I bought an RNP and heard much improvement on my songs, especially as I stacked tracks.

Then I bought a sytek and finally a lunchbox. I now have two API 512c's and an Avedis MA5.

For years, I would spend a lot of time eq'ing my snare and kick drum tracks trying to find that elusive "punch"...
I could only get the kick and snare to come out of the speakers (you know, really FEEL it, not just hear it) if I tweaked and tweaked, using a lot of compression, processing, etc. And then drums would sound unnatural to me... weird even.

I am still using the same mics I always have (usually 57 on snare, D112 on kick) but now I plug those two mics into my APIs.

Playback... there it is. It is so punchy, I have to roll off some of the lows cause it's almost too much. Highpass, and blend in the overheads and I am already 90% where I want it to be.

Sure, the right preamp for the source might not be the most important thing in the world, but for me it's a hell of a time saver.

RodC · Post by **RodC** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:28 pm

CedarSound wrote:I agree with Subatomic Pieces...

So I'm not cool enough

Go ahead agree with Sub, nevermind I was the first to stick my foot in this mess.... Hes prob more hip anywhoo

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:44 pm

RodC wrote:
If the instruments are the veggies in a salaid, say maybe 20 different ones... and the pres are the dressing..... And you only have ONE ingredient in the dressing.... everthing will have a similar flavor

We could do this crap all day, to each his own... but i chose a dressing with lots o spices and flavors, or Im not going to put it on

So, eh, are microphones the bacon bits?

RodC · Post by **RodC** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:11 pm

vvv wrote:
RodC wrote:
If the instruments are the veggies in a salaid, say maybe 20 different ones... and the pres are the dressing..... And you only have ONE ingredient in the dressing.... everthing will have a similar flavor

We could do this crap all day, to each his own... but i chose a dressing with lots o spices and flavors, or Im not going to put it on
So, eh, are microphones the bacon bits?

Damn streight, you know the SM57 is those cheap ass ones Shoney's puts out that look like red dirt. Then you move up to your Neumanns, those are the long well seasoned ones you get at the resturants I cant afford

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:28 pm

And the notorious Behringers, you know why them are croutons?

Because they sound so crunchy ...

RodC · Post by **RodC** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:11 am

vvv wrote:

And the notorious Behringers, you know why them are croutons?

Because they sound so crunchy ...

lol no, they are the stale ones, no crunch...

Ryan Silva · Post by **Ryan Silva** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:27 am

I think transient response is the biggest defining quality of Mic pres from my experience (minimal).

As CedarSound experienced, I just got 4 API's a couple months ago and the improvement of my drum tracks was anything but subtle. Finally after all that drum tuning, mic moving, and editing without success, I could finally hear and feel that "punch".

If I had stuck with the very adequate Toft preamps from my ATB I would have never got were the API's got me.

Jitters · Post by **Jitters** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:31 am

You always hear the API guys talking about punchy drums. Does anyone actually prefer Neve style pres for drums? I don?t have any experience with either to be honest, but I can?t help but assume that at the top of the food chain anything has got to be pretty good for everything.

Ryan Silva · Post by **Ryan Silva** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:21 am

Jitters wrote:I can?t help but assume that at the top of the food chain anything has got to be pretty good for everything.

I think that?s true for the most part, but super fast and punchy pre's regardless of quality sometimes can be a little too fast. Vocals for instance, if you have a patch of lyrics with a lot of 'T's' it's nice to have a pre that doesn?t react so goodamn fast. Of course it makes more sense to pick a mic with a slower response, but it's always a balancing act.

digitaldrummer · Post by **digitaldrummer** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:49 pm

I've had a lot of different pres - a lot of low-grade cheap stuff to begin with (even Behringer and Mackie mixers at one time

). At one point I had 8 channels of PM1000, and this was actually pretty cool since I was recording 95% drum tracks. however, I eventually found that I wanted something that had a few more harmonics - I ended up with a UA610 and then traded that off and got the LA-610 (cause I wanted the compressor and rarely used both channels simultaneously). I was doing some other sessions (not just drums) and have gotten some really nice vocal takes and bass guitar with that pre.

I also started selling off some of my PM1000 channels and got into the API 500 series. Not just API or API clones, but I picked up a pair of A-Designs P1's and a pair of AML 5003D's too. But since I still do a lot of drum sessions I found that I could find a pre that sounded great on a specific source. Today I use the P1's on ovhd, an OSA L1 on kick and a Fivefish SC-1mk500 on snare - I have tried lots of others and always come back to these for most sessions because they get me closest to the sound I hear in my head. And the PM1000 is still my goto bass DI.

The one thing I can say for going the 500 series route over the SCA is that if you wan't to mix it up later, i think its a whole lot easier to buy/sell 500 modules vs. individual SCA pres just because there is a larger market. And I've changed up my setup up over a couple years to where I have some flavors or colors that I like - and some that I'm still getting to know better. as said before a dynamic, condensor, ribbon, may all react differently with each pre.

I would say before you decided to build 2, or 4, or 8 of the same pre, make sure you know what you plan to record too. Drums, vocals, guitars, bass, ?

If I was going to go SCA, I would have probably gotten 4 of the N's, 2 of the A's and a couple of the "clean" ones.

Mike

T-rex · Post by **T-rex** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:13 pm

Are multiple pre's necessary, no. Do I prefer them, yes. I like having the syteks cause they are mega fast and pretty much pull the transients out of the air, it's crazy. I love the N72 because if you drive it hard you get some compression and it reacts slower. It's really nice to be able to further "eq" my sounds on the way in.

also, I had a pair of VTB-1's when i first started to go along with my mackie and I thought they did great. Really good for the money back in the day.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:57 am

subatomic pieces wrote:We should make a distinction between personal priorities and reality, then. The notion that different mic preamps don't make nearly as much of a difference as different microphones, is a myth started by someone who either hadn't used many different preamps or didn't have the ears to know what they were hearing.

Switching to a different preamp can make a HUGE difference in the sound you get. And, as has been pointed out, it can also make your mics perform differently than they did with other types of preamps.

I'm also not buying this shit about songs being easier to mix if all of the tracks are recorded with the same pre. MAYBE if it's being mixed on the same console that you used for the preamps, that might be the case. But, still, I doubt it.

Pre's do make plenty of difference, but, only if you have them, if not, you either go buy, rent, borrow them or learn to work with what you got.

If you have a world class console, you don't need pre's, but, if you know of one that does a trick you use often, better have it on hand.

JES · Post by **JES** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:24 am

I'm curious how people's opinions on this subject might or might not change when we switch the topic from micing to direct recording. 95% of what I record is direct. I stack tracks direct and use softsynths and plugins to mix. Is preamp variety still important if it's just (heavily effected) guitar, bass, and incidental sounds, or would it make less of a difference so long as there is a good direct channel into the A/D?

--JES

kingtoad · Post by **kingtoad** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:40 am

I'm just guessing, but I imagine it would make more difference if anything - there is one less other mitigating factor in that there is no microphone, so logically all of the other factor's influence will be higher.

jgimbel · Post by **jgimbel** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:21 pm

Seems like it'd be a whole different animal. Just think how different a diaphragm in a room moving because of sound waves bouncing around is from the signal coming directly from pickups. I imagine there would be some crossovers (preamps known for being harsh on highs might still be harsh on instrument signals), but usually, for me anyway, direct ins are a secondary thought when talking about the character of a preamp, so it probably takes even more research to find good info than it does to get a info on how the preamp affects a mic signal.

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Pres: is variety really a good thing?

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