LOGIC 9!

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Gentleman Jim
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Post by Gentleman Jim » Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:09 pm

sparky wrote:
...I think the range is actually kinda big (128 samples or something?)...
I always thought the moaning about the lack of sample accurate editing in Logic was pretty ridiculous for 99% of all the people who moaned. (I'm only leaving that 1% out there in case I ever find someone who I actually agree NEEDS sample accurate editing. I expect I'll meet Sasquatch first.)

Again with the arithmetic: assuming one is recording at 44.1k, and assuming that the edit range is 128 samples, that means that your edit could be off by as much as 1/344th of a second, or just under 3ms. Assuming the 128 sample rate stays constant, (does it?), then at 96k the edit could be off by 1/750th of a second, or about 1.33 ms.

Mind you, that's the most the edit would be off. Plain old dumb luck says that half the time it would be 1.5ms or less at 44.1k, .65ms or less at 96k.

Maybe the moaners all work exclusively with musicians whose internal timing is somehow synced to to the US Naval Observatory's Atomic Clock, (or Joel Hamilton's), but I certainly don't. If I'm moving tracks around and concerned about phase, (like drums), I move them all together. Worrying about whether the bass player is as much as 3ms early or late coming into the bridge? I don't have the energy for that. And prior to the last 15 years or so, that concern wasn't even an option. I'm pretty sure I like one or two recordings that were made before then.

To me, it just seems like people who moan about it are way more wrapped up in the computer science of it than the reality of audio recording. No orchestra would meet the same accuracy standard for tempo that somebody recording a $250 drum kit with 6 month old heads thinks they need - nay, DEMAND - in their software. For their myspace page. I ain't havin' it.

/rant

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woodhenge
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Post by woodhenge » Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:33 am

Great points!

One of the main reasons I switched to Logic in the first place was to make better music, both for myself and for my clients. Not to get hung up on the "geek factor". When I'm working by myself, I want to stay in "musician mode" as much as possible... Switching to "engineer mode" can kill the vibe quicker than anything! (even though I have an engineering degree... lol!) I like to work quickly, and MUSICALLY. Logic is about the only program I've been able to do that with.

I think the big hang-up people tend to have with Logic is that it works differently than other commonly-used programs, such as Pro Tools. It's almost like an XP user complaining about how OSX sucks 'cause it does something different than they're used to. Equally as capable, but different execution. I like it because it IS different.

Fortunately, for those who don't dig it, there are lots of great alternatives out there these days...
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alex matson
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Post by alex matson » Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:38 pm

I bought the upgrade from Express 8 for $299 on Friday (and then saw it $40 cheaper online.)
However, my install didn't go so well. After the second disc (Audio Content 1) was installed, i was instructed to go back to the main Logic disc...which didn't work, nor did trying Audio Content 2. Apple Support said I must have gotten a bad set of discs, and they're sending me a whole new set.

There are nine discs in the box. That's got to be a lot of stuff! 3 are Jam packs though. If that means they are Garageband type loops, I'm not too excited about that, unless I suddenly need to score a porn movie.

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woodhenge
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Post by woodhenge » Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:32 pm

alex matson wrote:If that means they are Garageband type loops, I'm not too excited about that, unless I suddenly need to score a porn movie.
Ain't that the truth!!! :D

Weird about the install... At least they're gettin' it fixed up for you. The hassle will be worth it in the long run, I'm sure!
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tdbajus
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Post by tdbajus » Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:05 pm

Gentleman Jim wrote:sparky wrote:
...I think the range is actually kinda big (128 samples or something?)...
I always thought the moaning about the lack of sample accurate editing in Logic was pretty ridiculous for 99% of all the people who moaned. (I'm only leaving that 1% out there in case I ever find someone who I actually agree NEEDS sample accurate editing. I expect I'll meet Sasquatch first.)

To me, it just seems like people who moan about it are way more wrapped up in the computer science of it than the reality of audio recording. No orchestra would meet the same accuracy standard for tempo that somebody recording a $250 drum kit with 6 month old heads thinks they need - nay, DEMAND - in their software. For their myspace page. I ain't havin' it.

/rant
Moan? Blow me.

I don't think think it is unreasonable to expect software in 2009 to have the same functionality that it did in 1994. Also, I have spent, in all, more than $1500 for a package whose express (amongst others) purpose to edit audio. Is it unreasonable for me to expect it to do the job I bought it for?

I don't think so.
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alex matson
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Post by alex matson » Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:05 am

I dealt with trying to install this for about five hours today.
They only sent the Audio Content 3 disc set after all. Which didn't work either, so i started over and this time got all the way to the last 7 minutes of the last disc, mysteriously called Additional Content. I think it's my optical drive.

It does the 2 minutes of whirring and endlessly scanning before spitting out or not reading dvds. There's a big thread about this in the Macbook Pro discussion group. Some people recommended zapping the PRAM, which i did to no avail. Ditto with short bursts of air into the slot. CDs will play, as will most dvd's on the third or fifth try, but even with unchecking all the software I know is installed from the installer, it takes forty minutes of reinstalling from Disc One before I can even attempt to reload Additional Content. After three tries I was done. I think I'm going to end up ponying up for an external dvd drive. I paid $1650 for this laptop last year and it never leaves the house...and I rarely use the optical drive. I should've gotten the three year warranty i guess, but goddamn. Aren't DVD players pretty well sorted out by now?

Is it safe to assume I can load software via an external DVD RW?
*begins furiously playing 'Sunshine' by Jonathan Edwards*
Last edited by alex matson on Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kingtoad
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Post by kingtoad » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:14 am

You can definitely load software via an external dvd drive. Hope it works out.

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woodhenge
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Post by woodhenge » Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:49 am

alex matson wrote:I think I'm going to end up ponying up for an external dvd drive. I paid $1650 for this laptop last year and it never leaves the house...and I rarely use the optical drive. I should've gotten the three year warranty i guess, but goddamn. Aren't DVD players pretty well sorted out by now?

Is it safe to assume I can load software via an external DVD RW?
*begins furiously playing 'Sunshine' by Jonathan Edwards*
Depending on how brave you are, you might be able to replace the internal drive yourself. http://www.ifixit.com/ has parts and DIY guides for most Mac laptops. I've done a bunch of them, and have had great luck... (disclaimer: I'm a pro repair tech, so YMMV...)

It could be worse... one of my studio clients called me last night to tell me he'd accidentally backed over his new 17" MBP, which is now a really nice aluminum pancake... :shock: Of course, it was carrying all the tracks we needed for a mix we were supposed to do today... YIKES!
insert witty comment here...

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Post by Gentleman Jim » Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:45 am

tdbajus wrote:
Moan? Blow me.

I don't think think it is unreasonable to expect software in 2009 to have the same functionality that it did in 1994. Also, I have spent, in all, more than $1500 for a package whose express (amongst others) purpose to edit audio. Is it unreasonable for me to expect it to do the job I bought it for?

I don't think so.
I read about your trials with Waveburner and your Superdrives, so I understand your frustration and state of mind. I once had a problem with Waveburner also, and as toaster3000 suggested, I think it was a Track at Once versus Disc at Once issue. Honestly, it was over a year ago and I don't remember how I got it fixed, I just remember it working out in the end.

As for that fellatio: I stand by my post. In fact, I realized a week or so ago that if the range is 128 samples, (meaning +/- 64 samples from wherever the cut is), then the times I came up with are in fact twice as long as they should be.

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alex matson
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Post by alex matson » Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:54 pm

woodhenge wrote:
alex matson wrote:I think I'm going to end up ponying up for an external dvd drive. I paid $1650 for this laptop last year and it never leaves the house...and I rarely use the optical drive. I should've gotten the three year warranty i guess, but goddamn. Aren't DVD players pretty well sorted out by now?

Is it safe to assume I can load software via an external DVD RW?
*begins furiously playing 'Sunshine' by Jonathan Edwards*
Depending on how brave you are, you might be able to replace the internal drive yourself. http://www.ifixit.com/ has parts and DIY guides for most Mac laptops. I've done a bunch of them, and have had great luck... (disclaimer: I'm a pro repair tech, so YMMV...)

It could be worse... one of my studio clients called me last night to tell me he'd accidentally backed over his new 17" MBP, which is now a really nice aluminum pancake... :shock: Of course, it was carrying all the tracks we needed for a mix we were supposed to do today... YIKES!
Wow, great information. That's a well done website, and after looking over the guide I think I could handle it. Unfortunately, the drive is $199 - used. And the question remains whether it's a hardware problem or something else. I'll keep researching. If it is the drive, it will be at least two months before I can afford that.
But thank you!

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woodhenge
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Post by woodhenge » Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:03 pm

No problem! Just doin' my thang...
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Gentleman Jim
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Post by Gentleman Jim » Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:02 pm

To anyone here who has upgraded to 9:

I just saw a review on Apple's site complaining that the user manual isn't in PDF form with 9 like it was with 7 & 8. Is that true? That would royally suck, I swear that's one of the things I really like about Logic vs. other DAW's, the ability to quickly find an answer to any problem I have by searching the PDF.

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woodhenge
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Post by woodhenge » Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:15 pm

Gentleman Jim wrote:To anyone here who has upgraded to 9:

I just saw a review on Apple's site complaining that the user manual isn't in PDF form with 9 like it was with 7 & 8. Is that true? That would royally suck, I swear that's one of the things I really like about Logic vs. other DAW's, the ability to quickly find an answer to any problem I have by searching the PDF.
Correct, it's not included in the installer. There is, however, a PDF manual on the support site here:
http://documentation.apple.com/en/logicpro/

Just download the PDF(s) and yer good ta go!
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sad iron
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Post by sad iron » Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:44 pm

OK, so I got the upgrade from L8 Express today. Now, Express did everything I needed it to. I made records and they sounded like what I wanted 'em to sound like. But I've been playing with L9 Studio for the past hour or so, just playing keys along with some previously tracked tunes, looking for sounds and trying out stuff and then throwing some plate on auxes that I'd already dialed in and I have to say, I'm feeling really funny in the pants. Space Designer is pretty amazing. I'm just trying temps right now and they sound beautiful. As much as Express did the job, this added stuff makes the job something more. I can't wait to see what else makes me excited...

Back to the fun...
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Studio site: www.sadironstudio.com

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woodhenge
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Post by woodhenge » Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:35 am

Just wait, there's more... :)
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