Music

[Girl Toes]

ok, so music hasn't been so good lately.

20 years ago,in the 80's, when I grew up, you could not avoid music. Regardless of the songs on the radio,games like SUper Mario Bros. and The Legend of Zelda provided some great music. Jingles in TV commercials were rampant, and, though I don't remember popular music from this time as well, even crappy, super commercial music was decent.

10 years ago, we had bands like REM. Losing My Religion seems a great example of good music put into place in popular culture. You didn't have to listen to modern rock radio. If you existed in 1992, you heard some great songs, just by existing.

So, nowadays. Sure there is plenty of great new music out there, but we have to look for it. Good music should come to us. In movies, commercials... In the past we haven't known where its come from, its just kind of been there.

We shouldn't have to look for it. There should be at least SOME decent music coming to us, weather we asked for it or not. Though downloading is a big issue, certainly the lack of any interesting music should be a bigger one. For both financial reasons and just the love of music, its hurt both sides. The consolidation of radio has been harsh as well,and with out the DJs to play and try out new music, where is it going to come from??? Internet radio and iPods are nice, but..... They certainly don't have the positive impact on modern music that we desperately need.

I work as a sound man in an East Village club in NYC. I play a LARGE variety of music between acts and while we are setting up the next band. There are lots of Williamsburg Hipsters that show up, and certainly these are people that have some decent impact on the industry and popular music as a whole. There are a handful of songs that will come on the loud speakers that EVERY one will sing along with. When ever "Wake up Little Suzie" by the Everly Bros, "These Boots Were Made For Walkin'" by Nancy Sinatra, "Hit The Road Jack" by Ray Charles, or "The Gambler," by Kenny Rogers comes on, and I have played these songs for innumerable audiences. But EVERYTIME i put those songs on, regardless of the type of band the audience is there to see, everybody sings a long. I regularly play Alice In Chains, Nirvana, New Order, Talking Heads, Blondie, etc.... but when ever those songs common, the whole audience stops talking and just sings along. They can't pay attention to their hipster conversations any more. WHY HASN"T THERE BEEN A SONG LIKE THAT SINCE 1971!!!!!!


The reason I bring this up in this forum is that I hope more people will remind bands they are recording of this, No one has ever told me that they hated Dion & The Belmonts or The Supremes. And of course you don't want your band to sound like either of those bands these days, but there is something that people back then got. Cause they have been selling records consistently for 40 years, and every one still loves them. Every time Elvis or The Beach Boys repackage their greatest hits, it hits the top 20 in Billboard. Elvis's recent repackage even hit #1!!!

of course the circumstances are often beyond our control. We aren't hired for our taste. But please, remind artists yer working with of the songs they love, and why. They won't argue with you, just play them some Nancy Sinatra and talk about it with them. Cause, goddamn it, just make some more great music. We have had so much great gear appear in the past few years, and TO has run some great articles with a lot of the of people who have been there for the whole thing. Why am I still not hearing any great fucking music!!! [/img]

[wedge]

My personal opinion is that the art of songwriting has devolved substantially and quite quickly, in rock music in particular. If the songs aren't good, then the music will swill down the drain of time into meaninglessness...

[Girl Toes]

My personal opinion is that the art of songwriting has devolved substantially and quite quickly, in rock music in particular. If the songs aren't good, then the music will swill down the drain of time into meaninglessness...

YES! I mean, remind the writers of what great song writing is. A lot of what I've been reading in TO lately has been in praise of live recording. The musicians didn't fuck up, they weren't produced to a pulp. Maybe we do have some great fucking song writers right now, but they are being over produced, and the song is lost.

[Phiz]

I'm more inclinded to believe that the lack of these culturally pervasive hit songs has more to do with changes in the music industry and technology than with a lack of good songs being written in the past 20 years.

I think the songs are out there. Great new stuff gets stuck in my head all the time.

[joeysimms]

..I think the songs are out there. Great new stuff gets stuck in my head all the time.

Such as?

I'm an old fart, stuck in the golden era of rock music, like 50's 60's punk 70's some 80's and 90's.. and, all I ever seem to hear nowadays is well-produced weak songs. BUT, I always try again, so lemme know what to try, if you can.

RE: well-produced weak songs - it goes part and parcel with this board in some ways. Lots of people with great tools at their disposal, and great knowledge to operate those tools to maximum potential, all squandered on poor song with poor arrangement, making the end result sound not-that-much-better than a 4 track. Hmmm.

[Phiz]

Songs from the past few years that I think qualify as high quality song writing and have gotten stuck in my head at some point:

Drive-By Truckers - Outfit
Eels - Railroad Man
Guided By Voices - Best of Jill Hives
Mirah - Cold Cold Water
Mojave 3 - Return to Sender
Tullycraft - Twee
Velvet Teen - Naked Girl
Wilco - Via Chicago

There is plently of other stuff, this is just some stuff I happen to have handy on my ipod at the moment.

[Randy]

Such as?

...and stuff that I can't get out of my head:

Joanna Newsom- Milk Eyed Mender

Gillian Welch- Revival (okay, so it's been around for a while...)

the song "Wrecking Ball" by Gillian Welch

Deerhoof- Milk Man

Mark Mothersbaugh's compositions on the movie soundtracks Royal Tennenbaums, Rushmore, and Life Aquatic.

other stuff will come to me.

[evan]

I'm not a big follower of new music, but here's a few new records that I think are certainly worthy of a listening:

Antony & The Johnsons, <i>I Am A Bird Now</i>
Animal Collective, <i>Sung Tongs</i> (they also have a newer one called <i>Feels</i> which I haven't listened to)
Afrirampo, <i>Urusa In Japan</i>
The Go! Team, <i>Thunder Lightning Strike</i>
Deerhoof, <i>The Runners Four</i>
Edan, <i>The Beauty And The Beat</i>
Electrelane, <i>The Power Out</i>
Jamie Lidell, <i>Multiply</i>

I definitely empathize with your view that worthwhile music is hard to find -- the sheer glut of modern music media gives us an overwhelming number of artists to choose from, and it's often not very discerning. MP3 blogs can be a good alternative, because they offer a much smaller niche approach to new or newly-discovered music. A solid starting point is the WFMU blog.

[trashy]

Such as?

...and stuff that I can't get out of my head:

Joanna Newsom- Milk Eyed Mender

Gillian Welch- Revival (okay, so it's been around for a while...)

the song "Wrecking Ball" by Gillian Welch

Deerhoof- Milk Man

Mark Mothersbaugh's compositions on the movie soundtracks Royal Tennenbaums, Rushmore, and Life Aquatic.

other stuff will come to me.

Those would be my examples for bad songwriting. No accounting for taste, I guess.

I'm just feeling more and more fed up with indie rock. Songwriting has been replaced with songstyling. When I think of a great song, I think of a strong hook, a sticky chorus, and a powerful performance. I'm hearing alot of noodling, aesthetic assurance, and Reason.

If I look at the last few really great singles I heard, they are all rap or hiphop. I mean, what has indie done lately that can match the power of "Jesus Walks" or the enveloping fun of "Hey ya!"?

[Randy]

When I think of a great song, I think of a strong hook, a sticky chorus, and a powerful performance. I'm hearing alot of noodling, aesthetic assurance, and Reason.

I see- You are talking about pop songs. And I agree, it is totally a taste thing. I gave up on looking for good new pop songs after a while because no matter how hooky, sticky or powerful the song is, I feel it has all been done before. No excitement for me.

Even the really good stuff seems derivative, like GBV. The old pop song structures bore me to death. V-C-V-B-V-C How many times can you burn through the old pathways? The reason I love stuff like Joanna Newsom, is that it resonates deeply without relying on well-trodden solutions. It's moving forward.

I might be wrong here, but I feel pop music has reached critical mass and has become more like old folk music or hardcore punk rock, where there are certain things you can do, and if you stray from that path, it is going to sound lame.

[joeysimms]

Bo Diddley's exciting, and it's one fucking chord half the time. The problem with most of the stuff listed here is lack of rock skills and bad singing. I'm not directing this at randy, but, if your argument is 'everything's been done', you miss the point: heart. Nobody puts their ass on the line, everyone in indieland is too concerned with appearances. It's like fucking art school or something, everything's there but the worthwhile art.

[penrithmatt]

Bo Diddley's exciting, and it's one fucking chord half the time. The problem with most of the stuff listed here is lack of rock skills and bad singing. I'm not directing this at randy, but, if your argument is 'everything's been done', you miss the point: heart. Nobody puts their ass on the line, everyone in indieland is too concerned with appearances. It's like fucking art school or something, everything's there but the worthwhile art.

totes

[Randy]

Bo Diddley's exciting, and it's one fucking chord half the time. The problem with most of the stuff listed here is lack of rock skills and bad singing. I'm not directing this at randy, but, if your argument is 'everything's been done', you miss the point: heart. Nobody puts their ass on the line, everyone in indieland is too concerned with appearances. It's like fucking art school or something, everything's there but the worthwhile art.

It's not necessarily "everything's been done," but more like there are so many more things to do, but if you do them, it's no longer a pop song. The genre has been defined. There are rules.

And we obviously disagree (and respectfully for my part) about what has heart. I think there is more heart and pure energy in Newsom's Milk Eyed Mender than I have seen in many years. Same with Gillian Welch's stuff. Not only tons of skill and craft, but a real love for the art form.

Deerhoof, yeah, they are a bit noodly and "experimental" but there is love in that.
Plus, I can't get it out of my head.

[GrimmBrotherScott]

I see- You are talking about pop songs. And I agree, it is totally a taste thing. I gave up on looking for good new pop songs after a while because no matter how hooky, sticky or powerful the song is, I feel it has all been done before. No excitement for me.

Even the really good stuff seems derivative, like GBV. The old pop song structures bore me to death. V-C-V-B-V-C How many times can you burn through the old pathways? The reason I love stuff like Joanna Newsom, is that it resonates deeply without relying on well-trodden solutions. It's moving forward.

I might be wrong here, but I feel pop music has reached critical mass and has become more like old folk music or hardcore punk rock, where there are certain things you can do, and if you stray from that path, it is going to sound lame.

Edited out because I am putting the soapbox away now.

EDIT:

Oh, and the last great purely rock single I remember is "Smells Like Teen Spirit". I had been listening to Bleach the year before and that knocked me for a loop, but the brute force of that hook, the vocals, etc...fucking brilliant.

[Randy]

How does a three chord song with a good bridge add up to moving forward? Because she plays a harp and she's cute? I think that's a pretty lousy example of "moving forward", although I like the song very much.

It drives me crazy when people speak about these "well trodden solutions". We have been using these same chords and progressions for hundreds of years. If you are going to "do something new" with it, it had better be pretty frickin' brilliant. Like on the scale of Beethoven+Mozart+The Beatles+Brian Wilson= YOU. It's a medium that you would have to master before you can manipulate, otherwise you are just wanking.

I should know better than to talk about personal taste online. I thought I was helping joeysimms out by listing the stuff that has been getting stuck in my head. The music i really like right now.

In talking about "well trodden solutions" I was not referring to the individual elements that make up a song. I was not suggesting we change physics so we can jam a few extra notes into the spectrum. I was talking about how it is all put together. When the Who came out, how many other bands were they being compared to? How much did they sound like them? Now when GBV came out, how many bands were they compared to? how much did they sound like those bands?

This is what I am getting at- I mean no disrespect to GBV, but they sound so much like things I have already heard. I hear a frankenstein monster of references. However, I have never heard anything like Joanna Newsom. The cute thing is only a small part. Her chord voicings, the way she builds tension and disperses it, the poetry of her words, it's all new to me.


Once again, I mean no disrespect here. and cool it with all y'alls heated attacks. it sorta sucks.