Anyone self-taught on a classical instrument (violin, etc)?

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

Moderators: drumsound, tomb

Post Reply
User avatar
curtiswyant
re-cappin' neve
Posts: 729
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:08 pm
Location: Boston

Anyone self-taught on a classical instrument (violin, etc)?

Post by curtiswyant » Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:59 am

I'm toying with the idea of picking up one of those cheap violins on ebay. Has anyone taught themselves to play a violin, cello, trumpet, sax or similar? I'd love to be my own "string quartet"... and my neighbors will hate me :P

matyas
pushin' record
Posts: 207
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:16 am
Location: Pittsburgh

Post by matyas » Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:35 pm

Do you play anything well now? That'll help, at least with intonation and such things. Few things are more abrasive than a beginning violinist, especially on a cheap instrument. Back in the day, old jazz guys taught themselves clarinet, trumpet, saxophone, whatever - but there were lots of players around and they all sort of taught each other. If you pick up a (bowed) string or wind instrument, be prepared to suck for a long time. I would strongly recommend taking at least a few lessons, at least at first. You can actually mess up your lips playing trumpet badly, and you can actually get tendinitis holding a violin incorrectly.
Now if your only goal is to create the raw sound of an untrained musician (which can be a legitimate aesthetic goal), then have at it. But keep in mind that most classical musicians start young and study for years....

User avatar
apropos of nothing
dead but not forgotten
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 6:29 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Contact:

Re: Anyone self-taught on a classical instrument (violin, et

Post by apropos of nothing » Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:38 pm

curtiswyant wrote:I'm toying with the idea of picking up one of those cheap violins on ebay. Has anyone taught themselves to play a violin, cello, trumpet, sax or similar? I'd love to be my own "string quartet"... and my neighbors will hate me :P
Yaigh! Cheap violin off of ebay is not worth the money you pay for it.

If you're serious about learning to play, please educate yourself before purchasing an instrument.

You will thank me later.

User avatar
surf's up
pushin' record
Posts: 270
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:34 am
Location: Texas

Post by surf's up » Fri Nov 18, 2005 2:54 am

I am classically trained on violin. Though I play less and less lately, and what I do play is mostly simple arrangements for my own stuff. If what youre looking to play is that, it can probably be done without too much trouble, but it will take some time. If you want to play classical music in an esnemble you really need to take lessons.

Violin is such a tough instrument because a lot of it is the mechanics that go into holding the bow, producing a proper tone, and being able to finger notes correctly. Then it comes to really making the instrument SING, applying musicality and dynamics.

jajjguy
re-cappin' neve
Posts: 777
Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 11:26 am
Location: near Boston, MA, USA

Post by jajjguy » Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:26 am

i know one self-taught string player. he started as an adult. he is an amazing, unusual success story. it took him years. like, a large number of years. and he's still got some serious limitations and of course his technique and style are not classical, but they're perfect for the indy drone stuff he does. what i'm saying is, yeah maybe but it'll only work if you love it enough to keep playing through all the years that it sounds like shit just because you love it. and even so, you shouldn't expect to sound like a classical player, but you could develop your own style that could be great. and i would be an idiot to bet money on your actually succeeding, but it has happened. how's that for a lukewarm encouragement?

bap
takin' a dinner break
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 1:03 pm
Location: Bushland

Post by bap » Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:58 pm

Learning how to hold the violin and bow can be of some benefit.

There are many styles and ways of doing this and it can all be mind boggling. Sooner or later a player needs to find a way to to individually facilitate their artistic concept of whatever they are trying to do because no 2 players are the same physically, emotionally, spiritually... blah, blah... they all have different things they want to express.

In my experience, people who say they are 'classically trained' usually don't much beyond the very, very, very basics of classical music. It usually means that they have studied some some of the rudiments of technique [scales. arpeggios, etc] and maybe have learned how to read and count a little. They have also played a couple of pieces.

A great musician, like a great audio or mastering engineer, learns from people, books, or internet boards, but the true source of their greatness always comes from personal discovery and experience. They are 'self taught'.

Still, it wouldn't hurt to learn how to hold a violin and bow!
'Oh... no... it wasn't the airplane...it was beauty that killed the beast.'

dumbangel
pushin' record
Posts: 255
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 5:41 pm
Location: Paris

Post by dumbangel » Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:05 pm

20 years ago, my parents bought me a guitar and i'm glad they did.

15 years, I got a recorder and had good fun with it at school.

10 years ago, I bought an upright piano and I've been very happy playing and making music with it.

5 years ago I bought a diatonic, and then a chromatic harmonica, and I'm still enjoying myself with it.

1 year ago, I bought an old Ludwig drum kit, and after a week I was able to use it on my home recordings. Simple beats.

Beside that, I've also played ukulele, bass, hand percussions, etc... I'm in love by nature with music instruments in general, expecially old ones, both musically and visually. There's a music shop where I live (Paris) with all sorts of weird music antiques, rare old brass, French harmoniums, harpsichords, only very old stuff, including a strange one string "violin" that you play with both a bow and a small wooden keyboard, etc... I can't buy anything as most of it is expensive, but it's still my favourite place on earth! From my experience of learning instruments with relative ease (although i'm only really good on guitar) and virtually no lesson (except guitar), I thought I could have immediate fun with any other instrument.

So a month ago, after listening to some pop stuff that was self recorded at home, and which included a simple but beautiful trumpet line, I got very excited with the idea of including simple horn phrases in my recordings, right on the spot without having to call someone and plan things.

I bought a Cornet on ebay. I chose it very carefully after inquiring about horns everyday for 2 weeks. The cornet is very similar to the trumpet. It's got a darker and smoother tone, although you can make it sound brighter with a different mouthpiece. Most importantly, it's slightly easier to play and articulate than a trumpet apparently. I chose this cornet very carefully. The Olds Ambassador model I bought has the reputation of being the best student trumpet ever made. I bought an old one from the right period for cheap. So far my plan was perfect, except one thing: I had never tried to play horns before... Not even a single minute to have a taste of the difficulty.

When I received it 2 weeks ago, I realised I couldn't make a single decent sound with it. I went to a shop and asked someone to play it. It's a beautiful sounding cornet. So it's obviously my embouchure that sucks. The guy at the shop gave me some advice but I'm still struggling like hell to get... well, just notes. And I haven't even started to get into the fingering chart yet...

Getting into that kind of instrument requires more physical effort (and that's an understatement), more time, and in fact more money that I expected: after the horn itself, I had to buy a mute, another mouthpiece, some expensive valve oil, a special cleaning brush; also despite reading the best information online about the correct way to use my lips, breathing, etc..., i'll probably have to take lessons at some point. Grr...

So far I still don't know whether I made an abysmal mistake or not. The question i keep asking myself all the time i "play" this cornet is, will the struggling period only last for a couple of months or will it take me 4-5 years to be at ease with it? That would be very time consuming considering I'm not 8 years old and not planning to make trumpet based music... So I don't know yet, but I think I've definetely seen my limits this time, and I'll give a second thought before moving on to another instrument.

User avatar
Beets
audio school
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 10:15 am
Location: O-fuggin-hio
Contact:

meh

Post by Beets » Sun Nov 20, 2005 10:28 am

This seems like a good enough place to make my first post.

I started playing the trumpet when I was in 5th grade. I played it all through grade school and high school. And I still sucked. If you bought it to add some sweet high-note jazzy elements to songs, forget it. Getting the right tone (and even being able to reach those high notes) take a LOT of time and patience. A lot. I'm not saying you'll never be great at it, I'm just saying I didn't have the time or patience, and I assume most people don't.

This seems to be a trend with classical instruments though, as a few years ago, I was sitting in my dorm looking at violins on ebay, and I thought "hey, I taught myself how to play guitar, so how hard can this be, right?" A few hundred dollars later, and my stupid electric violin got here. I had to take lessons to even figure out how to tune, hold, and play the thing. And then I was playing three blind mice. A very shaky rendition of three blind mice. Again, a lot of practice, patience, and a violin you didn't buy off ebay for cheap. Weeks later, I wasn't much better, and I'm sad to say that I have pretty much given up on it for now.

I do consider the violin to be harder to learn than the trumpet/cornet though. So there is my discouraging post, yay.

(edit)Now the harp is what I'm looking at next... how hard can it be, right?

Bob Olhsson
audio school graduate
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 11:45 am
Location: Songwriter Gulch, Nashville TN
Contact:

Post by Bob Olhsson » Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:48 am

Very few great musicians of any type seem to actually have been self-taught. It's popular for publicists to suggest that people are self-taught but after you strip away the hype, I've almost always discovered anonymous music teachers lurking in the background.

At the Tape-Op conference I asked Cosimo Matassa about this and he responded that you could probably trace everything important that has happened on his watch in New Orleans to a handful of great music teachers.
Bob Olhsson
Bob's workroom 615 562-4346

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 52 guests