How long do you guys take setting up for recording?

[joelpatterson]

hee hee hee HA HA HA hoo hoo hoo WHOO!

The people I record, quite commonly three hours is the SESSION, so I try to have every relevant mic up on a stand in a configuration that you would expect for the style. They walk up to it (or sit down by it, or assume the yoga position) and if it's on, and they can hear themselves, we do a tune to warm up and start tracking.

18 hours on a kick... that would burn me out. Or does that include driving over to Guitar Center to swap mics a few times?

[Professor]

When I first read the subject line, I thought I'd toss in a quick one-liner like, "I keep setting them up until I'm done."
But then I read all of these responses and I have to admit you guys have me worried that I'm not spending nearly enough time setting up drums. Am I doing something wrong? Did I miss something?

OK, as for my personal experiences, well I cut my professional teeth running around doing location recording in schools, churches, concert halls, bars, coffehouses, outdoor band shells, etc. I had 8 24-bit tracks to record on, about a dozen mics to draw from (with 4 pairs of condensers that did most of the work) and the usual accessories. Sometimes I would have an idea of what I would be recording ahead of the event, and sometimes it would pretty much be a surprise on arrival. Not like that I'd arrive at a rap session when I expected a choir, but more like I would go to a voice recital expecting voice and piano, and see on the program that one piece has voice and string quartet and another has a trumpet or something. Either way, I would usually aim to arrive one hour before the event, with doors set to open 20-30 minutes ahead of the concert. In that time, I'd find a place to hide myself, get power, setup my main pair of mics, maybe a safety pair, and any spot mics I might need. Even if it were a jazz or rock session, I would have considered my available tracks and mics ahead of time, sometimes even commiting to mic choices because of those particular limitations, and if I was lucky I'd get a sound check for maybe 5 minutes which was all the musicians would ever want to do, and quite honestly was enough to make sure none of the levels were up too loud, and none of the mics were grossly out of place.

But that was then.
Now I have about 70 or so microphones in the locker, 64 or 128 tracks depending on where I choose to clock the session, and all the tools I'd need right there in the studio (provided I'm in the studio).
Of course, what hasn't changed are the musicians. Classical guys, especially older academic types, seem to have this single-minded concept of recording which is that they walk into the room, tune, play their piece, and someone gives them a tape on the way out. This isn't surprising because that's what they've experienced in the academic concert hall for the last 30-40 years: a couple mics already hanging from the ceiling, maybe in some kind of 'correct' stereo pattern though usually not, run through some cabling and electronics that are either older than me or recently purchased from a local or catalog music store. In the 70s, they recorded to open reel, then in the 80s they switched to cassettes, and in the 90s they switched to DAT, and maybe they have since switched to CD, though sometimes not, since the CD has a limited length and must be finalized.
I have been trying desparately hard to de-program this mindset from my faculty, but it's very difficult. I try to explain that it is for their benefit that I want to hear them playing their instruments, in that room, on that day, in order to choose an appropriate microphone - but they don't understand that there's a difference. I could set up a dozen mics and try to illustrate the differences, but they would get fidgety and restless and might not perceive a difference anyway. So for now, I bring them in to an empty room ('cause I'm trying) and I very quickly setup all of the microphones around them. I want them to see the thought process, the mechanical process, the technical details, even if it is in fast-forward and they think I must just be unprepared - slowly I'll change them. Or they'll retire.

But that's the classical folks right, surely the jazz guys can't be that bad?
Nope. Just about the same. They get very anxious if they aren't playing within a few minutes of arrival. After all, these guys are used to showing up to the club at 9:35 for that 9:30 gig, pulling out their horns, and playing until 1am. The microphones are just sitting there already plugged into the PA in the backroom (with no operator) and they only need a mic for the piano and the solo horn, right? OK, so they also watch me setting up mics around them, and I tend to go really fast. But now I have a broader range of tools in the box, and I still go just as fast. I listen to that drummer, playing his drumset, and I start picking out mics (overheads first!!! ) to suit the sound I hear and how I'd like it to translate into the mix - that will determine mic type and placement. Kick and snare mics are only used to add some emphasis to those piece in the mix, so they are less critical, though I'll pick from one of maybe 5 'typical' kick mics to suit the sound of the drum and how it should appear in the mix. Then I'm onto the bass which is going to get a mic (if it's acoustic) and a DI (DI only for electric). Then I'm onto the piano which is the studio's 9' concert grand, so I know it well and just decide how it will mix into the final sound and pick mics accordingly. Then I'm onto the horns and I have a few standards, but will always listen first to see if I grab those or if something else jumps out at me. Everything's plugged into the walls, normalled through the patchbay to the console, maybe I put the overheads or piano through the Grace or maybe not. I setup a ProTools session while an assistant is plugging in headphone boxes, I record enable tracks, run a quick check on the gain across all the instruments and we're ready to roll in as little as 30-mins, maybe 1-hour tops if we're moving slowly. Even if I want to throw 3 pairs of mics on the piano or 10 mics on the drums, we're still ready to roll in under 90-minutes. This is a school of music, man, the drummer should be (and usually is) tuning his drums HIMSELF while I am setting up the other instruments. If I have to tune them, it's done FAST - though I have the benefit of having played drums since I was 11 and having majored in percussion performance in school, so I can tune a whole kit in about 10 minutes unless the heads are completely shot.

But that's me, and that's because the bulk of my sessions are single-day tracking sessions, and I am doing different projects every day both in and out of the studio. When I have long multi-day sessions I will spend a few hours getting setup, checking levels, etc. But even there, I couldn't spend three hours on a single drum - after about 15 minutes, if it wasn't my mic choice at fault, then the drum would be out in the hall and another one with a predictable sound would be in its place. If it was my mic choice, there would be another one in place, I'd get levels, and I'd move on.

Although I gotta say, I'm still curious why it's so different between what I do, and what I've been reading.
I'm inclined to think that all the time spent on drums has a lot to do with my very common tirade about mixing drums from the top down instead of from the bottom up. But I hit that one all the time and won't cover it again here.
I could see where the guitarist would get pissy in that situation, especially if you spend 3-6 hours on the drumset and then drop a single SM-57 in front of his speaker and call it done. Holy shit man, I'd want to rip your head off if I sat through 6 hours of drum worship and then got a fucking 57 stuffed up my grill! I try to consider that with guitarists, and I try to make as much effort on their sounds as well. I will usually run at least 4 channels on an electric guitar, a dynamic, a condenser, a ribbon or PZM, and a direct line for possible reamping. It's easy, it's quick, it leaves me with possibilities later, and it makes the guitarist feel like maybe he is special too. The bass player always gets a DI, because even if I want an amp sound, I'd rather reamp it later at a good level in the big room rather than sticking it in a corner and keeping it quiet - what's the point.

Ah well, I could go on about this endlessly, and already have. I'm going to get some dinner.

-Jeremy

[centurymantra]

Hey guys...great to see all these responses and a variety of schools of thought! Certainly gives me a little perspective on things, not to mention the psychology of the whole process. I was a a bit curious to see a few people mention that they took quite a bit of time with the bass and it makes me wonder what folks are doing with that instrument that might consume an hour of time. All in all, this thread's some good reading!

[HuskerDude]

It depends a lot on the musicians. The musicians and their instruments. If competent guys with well-tuned, great sounding instruments come in, I can be ready to roll in less than 45 minutes. If I'm polishing a turd, it can take hours. Trying to make a crappy drum kit sound passable is one of the least pleasurable parts of my job. That's why we have a house kit and house backline available. Our shit sounds good (and doesn't stink. ) and I know it like the back of my hand. That can save half a day sometimes.

[Mix413]

Usually we have a discussion with the band prior to the session to see what they'll be doing - their kit? house kit? number of toms, style of music, etc. When they arrive, a "standard" set of mics are already up and plugged in waiting to be positioned. In most cases we are listening to the first playback within 45 minutes and have the sound about 85% "there". A little bit of additional tweaking comes during the first couple of takes and then they'll be off and running. We have a lot of snare drums so if it's a serious album project we'll try different snares on different songs for a bit of variety from song to song.

Our two house kits are always ready to go with fairly fresh heads and in good tune. The problems requiring more time are usually when the drummer brings their own kit and there are dead heads, bad tuning, rattles, resonant ringing, etc, We then proceed to remedy their self-inflicted problems as best as possible, but that takes up time and their bill increases as a result. We strive to move quickly to keep the budget dwn, but there's only so much you can do.

PS: I like Tony's idea of leaving the band alone for a few minutes to get comfy with the headphones. I'll have to try that. We have those Furman headphone mixes and that helps A LOT. The band can mix themselves and we can focus on the sound going to tape.

[stinkpot]

Leaving aside the "it depends on..." stuff, which of course it always does, I'd say that I'm typically in the 1 - 2 hour camp. In the pre-recording meeting I always ask the drummers to make sure that the kit is tuned up pretty well, guitar strings are changed 1 - 2 days ahead of time, guitars are properly set up and things like that. Then I tell them that the more they do these things on their own time, the less they'll have to pay me to do it for them (paying me for the extra time, that is, although I will do it for them if needed). Usually works quite well, and gets the session rolling in a timely fashion and nobody gets too bored or antsy.

If it's taking more than 2 hours, I'm with Joel in that I just have to leave to restore my sanity.

[brian beattie]

This seems to be about keeping folks from going nuts waiting. I make sure the drummer arrives first. I already know the instrumentation, and I picture a version of how the band will potentially be set up, and then I always try to have my mics up and line checked before ANYONE arrives. I try to figure who will be the least patient, and tell them to come LATER. When I get snagged, and things are taking longer than expected, I tell grumbling gusses to GO AWAY, get a taco, run an errand. I have no idea how long it will take, but I try to stay peripherally aware about anyone getting miffed or bored. It's gotta be right, but if the sound of the drums is suddenly wrong to my ears, and nevertheless, things have musically warmed up, headphones are up and the band is ready to go,, I say "fuck it" and push record...., it's my job to do some turd sculpting later on. Then in the next energy breather, (perhaps after folks have come in and listened to a take) I dash out and switch or move the mic, and ask for a little more playing, and then as pressures allow, I keep futzing, or keep recording. In my life I've spent way too long and way too short getting set up, but I've only blown it if I ruined a good vibe.
Sometimes, however, if the musicians are WAY ready, and I'm not even close, I record a take and have them come listen. We can ALL hear that it sucks, and We can ALL be involved in the necessary changes at that point, and it becomes a team effort, as opposed to "me vs. them". It shifts focus, and it buys me a few more minutes sometime.
Either way, it's about listening with your toes, and staying on your ears.
brian

[trodden]

if i was bad ass like professor, damn then i might start charging more. I find that if i take my time on set up, then less mistakes later. but yeah average 1-3 hours, starting when first walk through the door to when we're actually listening back to a take, depending on the band. and of course there is coffee drinking, bullshitting, and stories about what has happened since last time i saw them. Its all live in one room, and a small room it is so i've got to listen and move, listen and move. granted there are rough areas where things go the minute the walk through the door, but small adjustments as it goes. I'm really into making it "headphoneless" as much as possible as well. takes some experimenting where everyone is comfy and can hear, but there is only bleed that works or can't be resolved later. However, usually, at some point the drummer requests some headphones due to certain parts of the song, or are just cool with wearing them cause they're half deaf anyhow. The bands i'm recording seem to react better without worrying about headphones sitting on their heads.

My studio is in my house, with 4 roommates, and we all have other "day jobs" as well as play in a band together. I've got to have full band tracking done by 9:30 pm out of respect for more my housemates rather than the neighbors.. but after a year of following that rule, we've never had one complaint from a neighbor. My roommates understands when i'm doing guitar overdubs with a cranked amp up until 10. and the roommate above me has kinda gotten used to the control room right below him. The point being, i've got a narrow time limit daily, as well as time limit weekly. I need to work fast, but i also need to make sure it sounds good. and if that means a three hour set up because we've got to tune some drums, drink some more coffee, and get everyone feeling good about standing in my basement rather than their practice space then so be it. How iittle I charge, no one is really worried about the clock.

I recorded a folk/punk/irish band this summer. all live but with violin over dubs and vocal overdubs. drum kit, elect bass, acoustic guitar, elect guitar, mandolin, accordian, scratch vox. 7 people throwing it down live in my small room. Took some time for set up, the longest i've had here. but it sounds freakin' great. glad i took the time.

[JGriffin]

in my world (ads, mainly) the "creatives" (which is what we call the writers/art directors) they want to start recording as soon as the actor shows up, so I have mics set up ahead of time and basically have to get it sounding good within the warm-up "read for time" take, while I'm getting levels. So, I choose a mic based on what knowledge I have of the voice actor and what role s/he is playing in the spot (luckily I work with lots of the same people repeatedly so I know what mics like them).

[tactics]

It depends a lot on the musicians. The musicians and their instruments. If competent guys with well-tuned, great sounding instruments come in, I can be ready to roll in less than 45 minutes. If I'm polishing a turd, it can take hours. Trying to make a crappy drum kit sound passable is one of the least pleasurable parts of my job. That's why we have a house kit and house backline available. Our shit sounds good (and doesn't stink. ) and I know it like the back of my hand. That can save half a day sometimes.

Sometimes the suggestion of using someone elses gear can be a problem in itself.It almost feels as though you impose yourself on a band before you've even got started.Or are you steering them down a better path? I have my brothers Ludwig kit set up permanently here which always sounds great.But it rarely gets used at all by visitors on sessions.I sometimes play the drummer some of my own music recorded with that drumset and they like the sound but still want to use their own stuff.
The album i'm doing at the moment is a classic example of this, great drummer, nice kit, but the snare sound he liked was thin and pingy sounding.Sounded ok when he played by himself but when the whole band fired up it was sounding shitty.It just stood out too much for their sound.I asked if he would like to try changing it or retuning and explained why, but he said no and liked it the way it was.To my ears it doesnt sit right at all but the band seem to like it, so thats fine with me.I guess he would have played with this sound for years and it was his own.
I normally wouldnt ask more than once to try something else unless it is really crap sounding.

[HuskerDude]

We generally just let them know it's available. Let them play around on the stuff before the session, on the little "tour" we do and during production meetings (if there are any). A lot of times, they'll be excited to play with new toys and ask to use them. I certainly never push anyone to use something they don't want to, but having stuff that you know and that sounds good can save a lot of time if the talent is ok with it.