If you were to buy a new set of cymbals for recording . . .

[honkyjonk]

What would you buy? K's?

I'm just looking for a crash, a ride, and a set of hats. My kit is pretty minimal.

I just want to go back to the source and quit fucking around with what the best mic is for taming annoying sounding cymbals, or what the best compressor is or the best blah blah blah . . . .

Anyway, I'm just looking for some ideas as to which of the millions of cymbals to go looking/hitting at.

I'm not up to snuff about drum stuff at all. I have no idea. I can tell you an old Gibson J-45 with dead strings, if it's a good one, can be your dream come true to record, but I don't know drums.

I'm looking for some cymbals, probably thin, dark, washy, vintagy sounding.

Suggestions?

[joeysimms]

I have zildjian avedis all around: 14" hats, 18" crash, 22" ride. I tape them up a bit sometimes for recording, but I like thre sound.

[I'm Painting Again]

I can tell you I really like the zil K custom fast crash for recording..I tried several they seem pretty consistant too..some cymbals like hats especially can sound pretty different from pair to pair..rides all sound different too..you kind of have to take some home and try some with your kit at your place to really see if they work..try to buy a crap load from a place that will let you return if your not satisfied..I don't know if you have tried recording your drums in other rooms but that can make a world of difference I have found..

The best recording cymbals might be vintage ones..but I have no clue as to what to look for there..but I have had some experience with vintage ones and they sound totally different and better than anthing they have in the mega-stores at least..

[xSALx]

A series is pretty sweet, but I think they're still a bit too resonant and bright for me. I would personally go for 18" K custom dark crash, 20" K ride, 14" K hats. At the moment I have the K custom dark crash and ride and love them both to death. However I can't say the same for my 13" A custom hats and I kinda wish I would have bought the K hats, they're still good, just taste.

[joel hamilton]

IMHO,
Having a bunch of choices is the best. Regardless. The best quality variety you can get. Get a couple of cheap hats, a really amazing crash, a "K" and an "A" and a paiste thingy, and some wierd sabian thing at the bottom of the pile...

I have LOVED crappy cymbals on certain sessions, in a "really truly they were perfect and not just in a shitty way" way.

[theenvycorps]

One thing I would say is DON'T scrimp on hats, for sure. I'd get a mix of A's and K's, personally. Go to your local GC and play every cymbal until you find one you like. My favourite ride is a Sabian Manhattan ride and I usually don't favour that brand of cymbal, but I never would have known if I hadn't tried it.

[ppercs]

I agree with the previous post about having choices. I would try to gather a collection over time. Having been a drummer for 30 years, all I can say is you can never anticipate how something will record or mix with whatever blend of other sonic elements that may be occurring at a given moment. "Crap" cymbals might be just the ticket in some circumstances. On the flip side, gorgeous hand crafted cymbals coming out Turkey such as Bosphorus or Istanbul will pay off without question in the right settings.

Some nice cymbals can be found from the big manufacturers but buyer beware - the incredible sounding cymbal you heard your favorite big name drummer playing at the show last night is not easy to match when you go to the store. Most of the time, the real gems coming from the big manufacturers are obtained by the artists visiting the factories where they hand pick the beauties out of the spades of cymbals kicking around. What ends up at the stores for the average Joe is usually crap in my experience (with a few rare exceptions).

A couple of resources for you:

http://www.cymbalholic.com
Lurk here for a bit to see what drummers are saying about cymbals. You can learn a lot here.

http://www.cymbalsonly.com
This is a site where you can listen to recordings of cymbals before you buy them. If you call Tony the owner and describe what you are looking for, he can probably help steer you. You won't find the big three manufacturers here, just hand made stuff from Turkey (Bosphorus and Istanbul brands). I'm not saying these are the only brands to check out, but they do fill a space the others cannot in a lot of cases.

The other can of worms is the engineering side - mics, preamps, EQ, etc. I've heard really marginal sounding cymbals turn into quite decent sounding cymbals through engineering. So in the end, there are a lot of variables. Don't forget that the type of stick (especially the tip shape and material) can dramatically alter the sound of a cymbal - most noticably on ride cymbals.

Like cooking with great ingredients, if you start out with a sound that is appealing when naked, it should yield great results in the final product. The tricky thing I have always found with cymbals, however, is that it can be tough to predict how a cymbal you are familiar with on its own will sit in a different situations. This is where experimentation and experience comes in, so start collecting and messing around


Hank

[Holding Pattern]

Check out Bosphorus or Istanbul.

These cymbals are all hand made in Turkey and are much thinner than most new cymbals.
Much better than any new Zildjians IMHO - and cheaper too.

Have a listen here

and yeah, crappy cymbals can sound AMAZING. I have a pair of tin Hi-Hats that are killer.

[xSALx]

So in the end, there are a lot of variables. Don't forget that the type of stick (especially the tip shape and material) can dramatically alter the sound of a cymbal - most noticably on ride cymbals.

Hank

I know it's a bit off topic, but I definately agree with this statement, and it's one that many don't think about. I rememerber one time going into GC to buy a few pairs of sticks. Thinking outloud I debated with myself as to what kind of tip to buy because of the difference tone. If I bought sticks with a nylon tip they last longer but I really don't like the tone and the wood tip is the opposite.

Of course, the wise man at the counter looked at me as if I were dumb, told me it didn't make a difference. Sorry just needed to get that out of my system. It's been bothering me ever since.

[ppercs]

Even looking at just wood tips (never mind the different nylon and other materials), you will find a huge range of sounds from different tip shapes and wood types. It can sometime be a little overwhelming!


Hank

[honkyjonk]

Maybe I'll get a set of Wuhans too, for fun!

[Professor]

Of course, like anything else it really depends on what you are recording.
In general, I think Zildjian has really gone down the tubes in the last ten years. It used to be that I didn't like the standard A series but the K series was fantastically rich and warm (for the most part) and the Z series were bright and vibrant though not thick or heavy. But now it seems they have changed formulations on the K and they have switched over to "randomized machine hammering" instead of hand hammering for K and it just isn't the same line of cymbals. I still have my 20" K ride that I got in 1987 and my 10" A splash from about the same time, and I love them, but I don't know if I could replace them today. About the only current products that I seem to like are the A-custom.
Sabian on the other hand has remained quite consistent. The company started when a younger Zildjian brother felt he could make better cymbals and did just that. Their HH line is still really nice, though honestly their AA machine hammered line is great. I have a 21" dry ride (from '91 ) that is clear, bright, focused, and well, dry and it is the perfect compliment to the darker, splashy, almost crash-like sound of the 20" K. For hats I have 14" AA 'Regular Hats' which are probably the most versatile hats I've ever played. They aren't too bright or too dark or too wet or too dry, too loud or too soft, just Goldilocks sort of the perfect middle and I use them live for venues as small as coffee houses and as big as out door festivals, and in the studio for all sorts of sessions. Then for crashes in the AA line I have a 16" bright crash (won it as a door prize and still love it), 18" medium, and 18" medium thin, and they have been used on more recordings than you can shake a stick at. Remember that thinner cymbals will be more splashy while thicker cymbals will be brighter and more bell-like, so the medium is brighter, the medium thin is splashier and the bright crash fits in between and blends with either one.
And for consistency, something must be said for Paiste since a 20 year-old cymbal will sound just like the current one of the same model. And something like their 2002 line is about as easy to record as they get. The crashes can sound slightly thin compared to some, but they work exceedingly well with mics for live and recording.

And yeah, a couple Wuhan chinas are neat to have around too.

-Jeremy

[drumsound]

I agree with having many cymbals at your disposal. I've got three cases worth. I like thinner symbals and I also find there to be something special about odd sized cymbals. I've got a 21" rock ride that I bought in high school that is still quite useful (though I haven't used it as a player in a while, I've recorded it though). I've also got 15" hats and two different 15" crashes, an A custom and a K Custom Dark. I also have a K from Istanbul that's 19" and its wonderful.

My two biggest sugestions for buying cymbals afre theses. Try to play them with your drums where ever you are used to the sound. If you have a good relationship with a store that will let you take a few varieties of what you might like and try them out and return the ones you don't like. If that's not possible, bring your cymbals to the store, and maybe your favorite snare too.

This one is even more important. Take the cymbals off the wall displays that most stores have. They're great for merchendising, but they make cymbals sound like absolute shit! The walls and the other cymbals do all kiinds of harm to the tone of the instruments. Grab a couple empty cymbal stands and put potential cymbals on them to listen.

[Fieryjack]

Buy some Paiste 2002s and you'll never go back. They sound much better than Zildians, or anyhing else for that matter. Crash and ride.....rich, crisp, well rounded.

[HuskerDude]

I've been getting to the "off-brand" cymbals latelt. Meinl, Bosphorus, Istanbul, etc... Cheaper than the big 3, and quality is easily as good. But I still love Ks and K Customs.
Look around in pawn shops and used store for oddball stuff, too. I bought a crappy old Camber 22" ride that I use as a crash (it's paper thin) that sounds amazing, especially with mallets or hot rods.