Marvin Gaye and Sam Cooke-How the fuck?

[Barry Jive]

Let me preface this question by saying that we're dealing with 2 of the most talented singers of the past century, and that their outgoing answering machine messages would be as compelling as most things made today.

Taking that into consideration, how the fuck did they get those vocal sounds? I'm referring specifically to their 50s and 60s work (allmusic doens't give specific dates.) The two songs I keep shaking my head at are "Aint No Mountain High Enough" and "For Sentimental Reasons". Obscure and under appreciated, I know.

It's sort of this gritty, piercing, but totally full and lush tone. It also has an unfamiliar kind of reverb with a pretty long decay (longer in "For Sentimental Reasons" but I think it's in the same ball park).

This is partially a gear question. What mics outboard gear, and recording format did they use. Considering that most, if not all of that will be out of my reach financially, is mostly a technique question. Any tips or cost-effective gear suggestions for getting that awesome awesome sound?

Just to make things a little more complex, I'm sort of an indie-pop/sort of country guy. Go figure. I really want to attempt a slightly dryer version of this sound for a new project I'm doing that's vaguely similar, though aesthetically very different than the project in my signature.

Thanks a ton, I know this is going to be really helpful,

-Eric

[joeysimms]

Only thing I can add is that I read the Sam did and re-did his vocals until they sat just right for him.

[elvisdog]

I really don't have any idea but you might want to take a listen to the deluxe reissue of "what's going on" -- it's got the cleaned-up original but it's also got the rough mixes for all the tracks, and a live show from the kennedy center. I mean, what shines through clearly is just the genius of the guy but you hear how it ended up in its final form, which is pretty interesting. Just the slightly different feel of the alternate takes lets you hear the choices they made.

[Shawn Simmons]

"Ain't No Mountain" was done on 8-track. I believe it was recorded at Hitsville in Detroit (the Motown studio). Not sure what gear was used. I seem to remember them having some Neumann mics and some Altec and UA gear. Bass was direct. All the guitars went to one track. The drums are awesome on this song. Two kits that are tighter than a gnat's ass. Great song, great production.

If you haven't seen it yet, you should check out "Standing in the Shadows of Motown". It's a great movie, an insightful look back at that time.

shawn

[drumsound]

I jsut sent a message to Bob Ohlsson ans asked him to stop by and add to the thread.

[Bob Olhsson]

Our producers used to put Marvin Gaye at the very top of his range (in his opinion it was beyond) and then punch in his vocals phrase by phrase. I'm sure this was one of the things that drove him to want to produce himself.

The echo (reverb) was a mix of live chambers and an EMT plate. The new convolution reverbs are the first reasonable alternatives to the real deal. Lexicons never worked like the real thing and convolution reverbs don't work like Lexicons which seems to confuse some folks.

[drumsound]

Thanks for coming by Bob!

[the brill bedroom]

I never thought of it before, but almost all of Marvin Gaye's early hits utilize his high, clear tenor and as soon as he started producing himself, the range dropped to his baritone register. I had to play "If I could Build My whole World Around You" last night at a wedidng and i was glad I didn't have to sing it- especially after tyhe modulation.

I wonder if taht was a common producer practice at Motown or if it was artists specific. It certainly makes sense when thinking of the equipment most of the consumers would be hearing the songs played back on.

[mighty rime]

I thought Sam recorded at STAX... if so Electrodyne mic pre, Scully tape machine, probably whatever compressor they had ( i would guess altec or La2a). and of course monitoring the sound through a mono Altec speaker.

[wrenhunter]

Cool info, thanks Bob.

[Barry Jive]

Great responses so far guys, and many thanks to Bob Olhsson for his knowledge and advice!

[Red Rockets Glare]

how fucking cool is our little message board that folks like Bob come by and drop gems like that?!

Thanks Bob!

[nipsy]

how fucking cool is our little message ....\quote]




too hip.....

[mr scratchy esq]

Sam Cooke recorded some of his material at United Western. I'm pretty sure he didn't record anything at Stax. I've seen photos of Sam singing into a RCA 77DX and a Neumann U-47 or U-48 at United. Check out the Night Beat album, in particular. It's an amazing recording and you can easily tell which vocals were recorded with which mic.

Bill

[the brill bedroom]

Sam Cooke is such a fascinating artist. Although he's vocally astounding on everything ever releases, most of his key material is very pop- very good pop, but it's not gritty down home soul music, so it would be easy for people to miss his greatness. One could see someone hearing him as just a great singer without the context of how incredibly influential he was. Not only does every soul singer that followed cite him as THE influence, but he was huge for all the British soul based bands of the 60's- Rod Stewart based his whole deal on Sam Cooke. Even someone lik Steve Perry from Journey is essentially doing a Sam Cooke impression on a lot of songs. Aretha Franklin has often spoken of being blown away by Sam Cooke when he was singing gospel. It seems that he touched everybody who heard him very deeply.


*disclaimer (to be read quickly, like a car commercial): mention of Steve Perry does not in anyway endorse said vocalists career. Poster like Escape when he was 12, but now realizes that it was horrible corporate rock. In fact, the poster once foud himself at a table with Steve Smith and simply could not stop laughing.