Marvin Gaye and Sam Cooke-How the fuck?

[luckybastard]

I have this old compilation of sam cooke's from the eighties and it's one of the only retrospectives you can get of his whole career because his publishing is now split between two companies. anyways, it traces his career all the way from his gospel roots(touch the hem of his garment) through "a change is going to come". the guy is absolutely amazing... honestly i would make the argument that he influenced marvin gaye more than any other singer.

[mighty rime]

My mistake i was thinking Sam Moore from Sam and Dave.

[Angie]

I just read a review of a new biography on Sam Cooke. It supposedly focuses more on recording session details than his personal life. Though no book could eliminate that.

[Brian]

I just met Sam Cooke. He came through my kid's school parking lot, stopped in front of me, shook my hand and said ,"Hi, I'm sam Cooke, the original" and then he left. Then he was a a gig I was mixing, dancing.hmmm

[Barry Jive]

I just read a review of a new biography on Sam Cooke. It supposedly focuses more on recording session details than his personal life. Though no book could eliminate that.

Do you remember the name of the book? Link perhaps?

[Angie]

I just read a review of a new biography on Sam Cooke. It supposedly focuses more on recording session details than his personal life. Though no book could eliminate that.

Do you remember the name of the book? Link perhaps?

Dream Boogie : The Triumph of Sam Cooke
by Peter Guralnick

[joninc]

Sam Cooke recorded some of his material at United Western. I'm pretty sure he didn't record anything at Stax. I've seen photos of Sam singing into a RCA 77DX and a Neumann U-47 or U-48 at United. Check out the Night Beat album, in particular. It's an amazing recording and you can easily tell which vocals were recorded with which mic.

Bill

hi bill -

some of us may not have had the chance to work with these mics so it might be cool if you could give a track by track with the various mics used. i just got this record and i can't tell which is which, the vocal sound is amazing - and obviously it's sam which is the key element in the chain but i wondered too what gear - obviously tape - what kind of consolo/pre - i thought he mainly used the ribbon mics cause that's what;s in all the pics...

any more info would be great ... i am trying to track down a copy of that book now....

[joninc]

Our producers used to put Marvin Gaye at the very top of his range (in his opinion it was beyond) and then punch in his vocals phrase by phrase. I'm sure this was one of the things that drove him to want to produce himself.

The echo (reverb) was a mix of live chambers and an EMT plate. The new convolution reverbs are the first reasonable alternatives to the real deal. Lexicons never worked like the real thing and convolution reverbs don't work like Lexicons which seems to confuse some folks.

this is great info bob - i wanted to ask a little bit more specifically about the reverbs - when you say reverb chambers - was that like live singing towards the chambers with a mic suspended into it or how was that done? i have only had the opportunity to use actual reverb chambers a little and it was only on live drums so i am interested in how they were used on a (presumably live) vocalist.

also i assumed that spring reverbs were heavily used on some of these artist - sam and marvin - were they used as well or was it primarily plates?

i am curious about the EMT plate settings too - was there a lot of experimenting with pre delay or was there a sort of "go to" setting that was used a lot?

i am really trying to get a handle on how to give a track (usually vocal but sometimes a snare) that kind of "halo" where the reverb is sort of invisibly lingering in behind the direct sound. i don't have altiverb because i am on PC but i do have a freeware version and some EMT 250 plate impulses that i have been loving but i am sure that i am not getting the most out of them. any thoughts would be great....

thanks a lot!

[mr scratchy esq]

Joninc,

As fas as Night Beat goes, "I Lost Everything" definitely sounds like a RCA 77 on the vocal and "Little Red Rooster" positively sounds like a Neumann U-47. If you can clearly tell the difference in tone on those 2 tracks you'll be able to figure out the rest. United studios had Universal Audio consoles and Ampex decks at that time.

As for Dream Boogie, I just picked up a brand new hardback copy at Half Price Books for $13. I'm only a 100 pgs. into it and while I like it, I don't find it nearly as compelling as Guralnick's portrayal of Elvis. So far Sam comes off as an unsympathetic womanizer, more or less coasting along on his God-given talent and looks. Hopefully, that will change as he matures and I get further along in the book.

Bill

[mr scratchy esq]

"So far, Sam comes off as an unsympathetic womanizer, more or less coasting along on his God-given talent and looks."

I just re-read my post & thought that that is exactly what happened to Elvis by the mid-60's (even though he always remains somewhat sympathetic in Guralnick's portrayal).

Bill

[AstroDan]

Sam Cooke is so fascinating for many reasons. Greatest voice in pop, excellent songwriter, but, from what I've read, was also a totally shrewd business man.

And someone who hasn't led as tragic a life as those two, but is of no less caliber is Smokey Robinson.

[Winslow Leech]

Here's an article. Down the page they get into vocal sounds...

http://www.recordinginstitute.com/R2KREQ/excomp.htm

[joninc]

Here's an article. Down the page they get into vocal sounds...

http://www.recordinginstitute.com/R2KREQ/excomp.htm

that's great stuff - thanks for the link.