B&W?

ryangobie · Post by **ryangobie** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:47 pm

well, the search engine on here has failed me. "b&w" messes it up somehow. it's probably the "&". anyway, i'm looking for some monitors and in one of the old monitor threads (yeah i did some digging already) someone mentioned a set of dm602s and a bryston amp. a few other people chimed in and it was all positive. from what i can gather these aren't technically monitors? can anyone chime in or point me in the direction of some reading?

dwelle · Post by **dwelle** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:54 pm

they aren't technically studio monitors, no, but i know of a number of people who use them as such. i actually plan on getting a pair in the near future.

hopefully jeremy (professor) will sound off. i think he know's alot about the b&w's...

KFT · Post by **KFT** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:15 pm

I've not used the 602's but I do mix on a pair of CDM-1SE's and absolutely love them. True, they are not technically studio monitors but rather more of an "audiophile" speaker. Like any monitor I'm sure they won't work for everyone, but they work well for me. I had the luxury of trying them in my studio before ever commiting to them and this set was very affordable. I find that my mixes translate better on these than anything else I've used in the past. I've been using a Rotel amp with my B&W's but at some point it would be nice to upgrade to a Bryston.

MASSIVE Mastering · Post by **MASSIVE Mastering** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:47 pm

I think mixing (and obviously, mastering) through audiophile-grade loudspeakers is great... Let's keep in mind that "Studio Monitor" is a fairly new "buzzword" in the audio lexicon...

In the "good old days," studios used big, bulky, wonderful-sounding loudspeakers that were ANYTHING but "flat" sounding - They were a pleasure to listen to in most cases.

Now, the term "studio monitor" is usually describing some flat (as in DULL and BORING) sounding, anemic, narrow-dispersion, short-throw box that's made to take the room out of the equation.

Given the choice, I'd work on making the room sound acceptable and get speakers that I LIKE to listen to.

DM602's are certainly a great sounding set - and cheap. What are they, $6-650 a pair? Wide-dispersion, long-throw (nearfields make me freakin' sick) speakers from a company that makes some of the greatest boxes ever made...

It's all about learning the speakers you're using - And (IMO) it's much easier to learn a pair that you truly like to listen to. If your room is in decent shape (some bass trapping, a little reflection control) go for it.

Cyan421 · Post by **Cyan421** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:29 am

http://news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/ ... 61424.html

This is an article that outlines the use of B & W speakers at Abbey Road studios in no other but London. There you go for using hi-fi gear in the studio.

Russian Recording · Post by **Russian Recording** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:13 am

The B & W Matrix 805 is a very popular studio monitoring choice. I power mine with a Bryston 4B amplifier. They are very non-fatiguing and "fair" sounding... no hype, no coloration. I find these to be the most valuable qualities in a studio monitor. The most important thing is to learn your room. Ive found that with many monitors you have to learn the room AND the monitor. With the B&Ws I feel like I just need to learn the room, and as a result I dont have to work las hard to get a good feel for my monitoring enviornment.

Coco · Post by **Coco** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:49 am

I have some CDM-1's as my home speakers and I love them. As soon as I upgrade my home speakers to the newer CDM-7 floor standing equivelent I am going to use the old ones as studio monitors. If B&W made a powered monitor geared towards studio use, I think they would clean up.

mingus2112 · Post by **mingus2112** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:27 am

I know they're not in the same league at ALL, but i use Solids (made by B&W in japan i guess?) for mixing and mastering. I have a pair of NS10s that i get sounds on, but my Solids are my reference to "the real world."

-James

Professor · Post by **Professor** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:28 pm

It's sad to say, but my B&W collection seems to have dwindled down to just one pair of DM-302s in my office at school. But along the way I've owned a bunch including several versions of 602s and I worked for three and a half years at a hi-fi dealer where I've heard and installed pretty much every model the company made up through 2003 (when I stopped working there). So I'd say I'm fairly intimate with the entire 600 series, CDM-series (discontinued), the CM series, the 800-series (except the diamonds) and the 700-series (that replaced CDM). My last pair of series-3 602s is down the hall in the office of one of my student employees who bought them from me about two years ago.
I've often said that the DM-602 is the single best bang-for-buck speaker you can buy. It typically sells in the $600-650 range and if you couple it with even a basic hi-fi amp at about $500 or so, the $1100 setup will bury just about any self-powered "pro monitor" up through double or triple that price range. I mean, to be fair, at about the $3k point the JBL LSRs catch up and above that the Tannoy Ellipses and similar high-end monitors will start to top them. But I can't think of anything below $2k that comes close.
602s have that aluminum tweeter and large kevlar woofer, and can take a healthy bit of amplifier power to give you a really great sound, that is really quite flat across the band. Some people may find them slightly 'bright' with the metal tweeter, but that's mostly because the high-end is extended and fairly flat compared to the wavy and quick to drop off frequency plots of typical silk-dome tweeters. And the woofers extend pretty cleanly down into the 50Hz or so range and tend to sound fuller and bassier than similar sized prop monitors. Of course, you still need to be careful with the bass because if you send to much low end to the monitors it will pull the woofer away from it's mid-range duties, though that is the case with any 2-way box.
If your room is smaller, the 601 isn't a bad choice either and is a little less overwhelming in smaller spaces. And as you go up in their product line, to the CM, 700 or 800 series speakers, the similar sized bookshelf speakers will get a bit tighter and more accurate. Sure enough the 805 is an incredible speaker, though it's tough to say if it is worth the $2000 price point for a small project studio. That pair with a $1000-1500 amp will certainly top anything again double or triple the price, but it's a steep purchase for the average project studio.

The nice thing about B&W and other high-end, audiophile-first companies like Dynaudio and Tannoy is that they do great R&D and product development, and the technology implemented in their top of the line boxes trickles down to their lower line boxes. For example, if you drop $2k on a set of KRKs you're getting the best they build. But if you drop $2k on B&W you're getting their lower to mid-level speakers. Their top of the line runs about $45,000 (the Nautilus) just like Tannoy's top runs about $40k and Dynaudio's top runs about $85,000. Think of it like buying the top of the line Ford or the bottom of the line Porchse.

-Jeremy

Oh, and the Rock Solids were cool little boxes too - designed as an indoor/outdoor home speaker. When they were discontinued they were replaced with the "leisure monitor" LM-1 speakers which sound a whole lot better, are still indoor/outdoor, and come in 5 paint colors that they purchase from Audi.

Russian Recording · Post by **Russian Recording** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:48 pm

Professor wrote: Sure enough the 805 is an incredible speaker, though it's tough to say if it is worth the $2000 price point for a small project studio. That pair with a $1000-1500 amp will certainly top anything again double or triple the price, but it's a steep purchase for the average project studio.

The Matrix 805s go for about 800-900/pair on the used market (they aren't made anymore), and you can get a Bryston 3B for about 500 (also used, but with a no questions asked 20 year warranty). For 1300 you can get a monitoring system that will make you cry from joy.

The new 805s are quite pricey though, as are the new Brystons.

Coco · Post by **Coco** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:19 pm

Good place to look for used B&W and Bryston is www.audiogon.com Lots of rich hifi guys selling stuff cheap to upgrade to better.

Professor · Post by **Professor** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:19 pm

Yeah, because of my history with them I'm much more familiar with the products and pricing for all the current (or near-current) products.
But that is a pretty fantastic purchase if you can track down the used pieces easily.

-J

ryangobie · Post by **ryangobie** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:58 pm

what kind of differences exist between the dm602 and dm602-s3 etc...

Professor · Post by **Professor** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:22 pm

If I recall correctly, the original 602 had an alloy tweeter while the S3 has a pure aluminum with a different surround, the S3 I think has the golf ball dimples on the port, some different components/setting in the crossover, etc. It's a lot of the trickle-down technology from the Nautilus-800 series that wasn't included on the original design.
Oh, and there are different color options for the wood.

-Jeremy

cgarges · Post by **cgarges** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:34 am

Cyan421 wrote:This is an article that outlines the use of B & W speakers at Abbey Road studios in no other but London. There you go for using hi-fi gear in the studio.

That's where I first heard the B&Ws and what prompted me to get my 805s. I love them and they are the absolute RIGHT speakes for me, in terms of what I like to hear. They're not the least bit fatiguing (take it from me after having to go back to NS10s and Genelecs for the past week) and are "fun" to listen to in a very true-to-life sort of way. They sound good, but not great, and that's what appeals to me. When I get mixes happening on these, there aren't really many "surprises" outside of the studio.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

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