really big drum kit

[JamesHE]

I'm reuniting with some old bandmates to do a project. The music is Progressive/ Alternative Rock. Power trio (think Rush and The Police meet King Crimson) The drummer (being a big Peart fanatic always has a big kit)
So yeah 10 toms and loads of cymbals.

Normally I set up a pair of overheads, put a mic on kick and snare and I'm happy. This is a different sort of monster. We had a "first" rehersal and I set up overheads (xy) and a kick mic quick just to record that. Sound was just like I expected, good, but not enough toms. (especially for his tastes in drum sounds)

I don't have the mics (or channels for that matter) to close mic everything at the moment. What I have done before is to mic in between toms, But i've never been happy with that. If I'm trying to close mic, I want to really hear the attack, and not get so much bleed. Our budget dictates our options (always) so what we discussed was for me to pick up a Behringer ADA8000 to add 8 inputs (and 8 pres) to my 828mkII. And he'll spring for some tom mics, like 4 or 8. (his budget for that is roughly $300 - $400)

great. all I need is more low end gear.

currently what I own is:
3 SM57's
1 B52
1 ATM25
2 MXL 603's
1 CAD M179
1 GT AM11
1 BLUE Ball

We'll probably go the close micing route, but I was wondering if there were some other suggestions as far as micing techniques using fewer mics. I use the 603s's through a Aphex 107 for my overheads. (usually xy) I wouldn't rule out a better pair of overheads or something along those lines. Maybe using multiple pairs of overheads or something like that, but i'd imagine the phase relationships would be a nightmare to contend with.

any thought's experiences with a kit like this?

[JohnDavisNYC]

my advice for a kit that big is to burn it.





um... well, that's what i'd want to do, but i'd talk to the drummer about the practicality of the set, and how much of it really gets used. i rarely see drummers with huge kits actually use half of them.... if he doesn't really need the third floor tom, ask him to take it away from the kit, and then there are only 9 toms to mic.. same with the suspended gong bass drum behind his head... maybe even get song specific. mic the 6 toms he needs for that particular song, that way you can get away with fewer, higher quality mics on the drums that need to sound good, instead of lots of not so awesome sounding drums.

i heard something about taping a PZM to neil peart's chest? get a radio shack pzm and make your drummer wear it.

i dunno. i haven't mic'd a drum set larger than 4 piece in about 6 years.

cheers,
john

[Phiz]

If you happen to have a little mixer around, you could mix down some of the tom mics and perhaps save yourself from having to buy the crappy converters/pre-amps.

[Cyan421]

I know good trick ive heard of, it is to use a multi pattern mic, in figure 8, inbetween two toms. You can seperate the toms later (if you desire to pan or eq them differently). You can easily copy and paste in a DAW without messing up his playing, or you can do in the analog realm with a mult and a phase flip. You could probly only get one mic that would have figure 8 for that price so that may be a terrible sugestion but a good trick nonetheless

[JamesHE]

my advice for a kit that big is to burn it.

that's pretty much my gut reaction too! lol

um... well, that's what i'd want to do, but i'd talk to the drummer about the practicality of the set, and how much of it really gets used. i rarely see drummers with huge kits actually use half of them.... if he doesn't really need the third floor tom, ask him to take it away from the kit, and then there are only 9 toms to mic.. same with the suspended gong bass drum behind his head... maybe even get song specific. mic the 6 toms he needs for that particular song, that way you can get away with fewer, higher quality mics on the drums that need to sound good, instead of lots of not so awesome sounding drums.

i heard something about taping a PZM to neil peart's chest? get a radio shack pzm and make your drummer wear it.

The song specific idea sounds like it might work. So is the PZM taped to his skin or is it more like on a small piece of plexi?

I first started playing with this guy in 92 so I can tell you with certainty that he can't be talked into downsizing the kit. He basically had stopped playing for a year or 2, (family stuff) and is now wanting to get back into it, so I'm just being supportive as I can. But he does pretty uch use it all (for better or worse)

[Fletcher]

If the toms are too soft then the drummer isn't hitting them hard enough... you should be able to get a well balanced sounding kit directly from the drummer... one mic. If you can't that means the drummer want you to make up for their deficiencies with electronics... which you can kinda do, but it'll cost... so unless the drummer is willing to help you pony up the cash to help you fix his lack of technique then the onus falls upon the drummer to give you sounds that are recordable.

Best of luck with it.

[I'm Painting Again]

you could get 4 octava mc012 or mk012's (`400$)and put each one between the toms micing them as couples for a big tom sound..just make sure your phase is good with the other mics on the kit..

[dokushoka]

Man, first off, I'd ask the drummer what the 10 toms are for?

Jugajugajugajugajugajugajugajugajugajuga right?

This is 2005.

Next up, I'd kindly explain to him how each time he hits his snare, all 10 of those toms are gonna ring like hell and ruin his "otherwise perfect" snare sound.

From there, I'd see if I could then convince him to scale his number of toms back to, oh, say 3 and tell him that it'll make him sound "even bigger" that way and that he "totally has the skill to only do it with 3 toms."

Micing wise, I'd try this:

http://sfrecording.com/videos/DrumRecording.mp4

It picks up the toms pretty darn well, provided the drummer hits them pretty darn well.

[Randy]

When I see ten toms on a kit, I instantly think "xylophone." If the drummer then proceeds to hit all of them without regard to the key of the song, I instantly think "wanker."

Ask the drummer which drums he hits on the song that is up for a take, and then mic those drums. If he is doing rolls that go down all the drums, he already sounds bad, and it will do good for those drums not to be up front, dry and present.

Ten different tones ringing with guitars and a voice already going just makes mud, unless he has them tuned to the other instruments and is playing them in key, like a xylophone.

The drummers I have mic'd that have the mega setups who actually sound good have that many drums to account for the basic triads of the songs. When recording, they get the non-essential toms out of the way to avoid bad sympathetic vibration. They seldom use more than three toms.

[tomhampton]

in the video i saw of neil with the PZM, he had it hung around his neck and gaffer-taped to the shirt he was wearing.


and if you tell your drummer you saw neil doing this, you'll probably get no argument about how brilliant it is.



T

[joeysimms]

I think a lowish stereo pair behind the drummer's head, pointing down at the toms should do the trick. Well, that and the guy hitting the things harder. You just *know* this dickweed wants to hear himself do this superfast roll and have it run from one speaker to the other.

[Randy]

in the video i saw of neil with the PZM, he had it hung around his neck and gaffer-taped to the shirt he was wearing.


and if you tell your drummer you saw neil doing this, you'll probably get no argument about how brilliant it is.



T

I did this to a drummer once and I got some funny grunt noises along with cymbal dropouts when the drummer changed position. I want to try it on a drummer who doesn't grunt (is there such an animal?) or move too drastically.

[lyman]

just tell him that there's an interview with neil in the new issue of modern drummer where he says you're not cool unless you use only 3 toms.

[Chris_Avakian]

just tell him that there's an interview with neil in the new issue of modern drummer where he says you're not cool unless you use only 3 toms.

word...