mic-ing drums with only 2 mics...

[lyman]

I've got a question. I'm planning on recording a band, they'd like to track live in their practice room. now, due to input limitations (and # of mic limitations) I can only devote 2 mics for drums. i'm planning on using a SDC pair in an XY pattern on the drums. and i'll try to configure the room to give the maximum separation, of course.

is there a different approach that I might try also? what about the phase issues of bass/guitar bleeding into the drum mics? overdubbing and using more mics aren't an option in this scenario. thanks!

[curtiswyant]

I've had good results using an LDC out front, 3-4 ft away at about snare height, with another mic as single OH.

[Kyle]

The method that curtiswyant is talking about works really well in my opinon. I wouldn't worry about a stereo picture of the drums as much as I would worry about getting the best possible drums sounds. Set the mics up and the move them around until you are happy with the sound of the kit. This shouldn't cause any noticable phase issues, I happen to like a little instrument bleed in my drum mics when its appropriate.

[Professor]

My typical recommendation about limited tracks for drums is this:
If you have only one channel then you do a mono overhead above the drummer because that is where much of the sound is projected most clearly.
If you have only two channels then you do the mono overhead plus a kick mic because the kick is the one drum pointed the 'wrong way' for the overhead.
If you only have three channels, then you may choose to go with stereo overhead plus kick if the drums will be your only stereo source, or go with mono overhead, kick, and snare because extra clarity on the snare is generally expected in rock music.
If you have four channels, then go with stereo overhead, kick and snare.

There are all sorts of other things you might also be able to do, and lots of other signature methods that some folks use, but this is a formula that has worked for me, and is usually something that any basic microphone collection can handle.

Of course, another trick you can do if you have the mics and mixer to manage this and are just low on the track count is to mic the kick & snare, drop the highs on the kick mic and lows on the snare mic and sum the two together to one track on the recorder. Later in mixdown, you could split or copy the track to two channels, drop the highs on one to recover the kick and drop the lows on the other to recover the snare. Then compress and process those individually to taste and mix them in with your overheads. On a live jazz recording I did while still a student, I had only 8-tracks, had a main pair at the front of the stage and mono spot mics on each part of the group with only one mono overhead for drums. In mixdown, I split that mono overhead into 3 parts, low, mid & high, then panned the mid slightly right and the high slightly left, compressed all three independently to varying degrees and had a very convincingly "stereo" spot mic that blended in very well to the main pair to give a nice spread to the drums on the final mix.

-Jeremy

[drumsound]

I would try two things. One is the one overhead and one BD mic. The other would be a waist high (to start) front of the drums (maybe with a bit of compression). Then I'd add the other instruments and see if I needed more BD or more SD. I'd add a mic to whichever I though wasn't making it. If it really killed, I'd make the extra a room mic for the whole band.

[aeijtzsche]

If the band is willing to be daring and commit to not punching anything in, I'd almost encourage letting bleed happen. If you work with it, you can get a nice full drum sound. I think you'd probably need a nice room for that though.

The reason I suggest working with and encouraging some bleed is because most of my favourite drum sounds are from older records where the drums were recorded with two mics and all the other mics in the room were "room mics". If you listen to records coming out of LA in the mid-60s, coming out of Gold Star or Sunset Sound or something, particularly if it's a decent stereo mix, you can hear what I mean. Those sounds were primarily from a U67 or 47 overhead, and at least at Gold Star an RCA 77 on the kick.

That might not work for this band, but it's just a thought.

[lyman]

thank you for the feedback. i see the logic behind using an overhead as well as another mic out front to get some of the kick. and that's a good point that kyle made, that getting a good sound is paramount to getting a stereo image.

bleed-through and a mono drum sound probably will work great in this case. i'm (and the artists) are going for an early The Band sound, like on Music From Big Pink so i think this approach will suit their material well. of course, on those albums a big part of the drum sound was the way Levon Helm hit them, and how he tuned his kit. he had such a cool sound, IMHO.

[Mix413]

I'd agree that you should use one overhead and one in front of the kick. Another thing you could try is putting a good SD omni condenser underneith the hihat facing the rim of the snare about 5" from the shell. We've used an Altec Lipstick mic like this and it picks up a really good picture of the kit. You might need another mic over on the ride/floor tom side. If you can mix that in onto a single track, try that.

[jmoose]

I've done almost the same thing as John Noll, but I place the omni right over the kick drum and under the ride cymbal...just about where the drummers knee is. Then you can try putting the second mic overhead, in the kick or maybe where John places it. That might make for a cool stereo image.

[Cyan421]

This is a completely different approach. Works better if the room sounds good and the band is super tight.

I would start with my pair of SDC's in a spaced pair set up on THE WHOLE BAND. If its going to be all live you not really concerend with bleed right, so just mic the whole band. I would put the mics at about waist hight or lower, have the drums in the center, guitars and bass on the sides. Make that a starting point and add mics as you need. Mabey on some part you really want some more ride cymbal....

[dokushoka]

http://sfrecording.com/videos/DrumRecording.mp4

[b3groover]

I just recorded my trio's drummer tonight with a pair of Studio Projects B1s (cardiod LDC) on a bar in a standard ORTF configuration and about a 12-16 inches in front of the kit at tom level. I also used a kick drum mic, so that's three mics, but you could probably get away with out it. Depends on the type of music.

I used to mic up every drum and use a ton of tracks. Using just three mics, I've never gotten better drum sounds.

[mfdu]

use a ribbon (or LDC in fig. overhead - double it into an adjacent channel and flip the phase (a la M/S stereo pair, but without the M) - voila you have imaging off a single mic. compress to taste.
combine that with a PZM halfway b/w the snare and the kik. maybe with a little compression (i generally use my 1176 in slam mode and f*ck some sh*t up).

rather like jmoose's concept of one at the drummers knee and one at drummers shoulder.

of course, if you have a console you can simply mic up whatever components you want, and then mix to a stereo pair (plus or minus kik/snare). now thats what i call commitment. can be scary, but when it works you'll feel like a GOD

get the band commit to playing as a band. like everyone else seems to be saying.

use the bleed. make the bleed work for you.

of course, you could try using sansamps (or the b(*$^&er amp modler/di boxes) on the guitars if you want to keep the rest of the room quiet.

but if you have live amps, try this. use a PZM. maybe an LDC. find the sweet spot in the room (tape to the ceiling maybe?) and jam it right in there. again, compress to taste. i have provided bands with an approval cd purely using this mono room mic.

chris.

[leigh]

use a ribbon (or LDC in fig. overhead - double it into an adjacent channel and flip the phase (a la M/S stereo pair, but without the M) - voila you have imaging off a single mic. compress to taste.

Forgive me if I misunderstand you here, but I think what you'd have then is a perfectly out-of-phase L/R spread, which would make the drums completely disappear when collapsed to mono.

Leigh

[mfdu]

aaah yes i see what you mean - m/s folds to mono because of the mid mic.

so what do you do with a fig 8 to project each lobe of the polar pattern into one side of the stereo sphere?

hang on - now i remember - you dont have to split and pan the fig8! the fig8 panned dead centre actually still provides a level of spacial information, doesn't it?

i'll have to run away and double-check.

cheers,

chris.