cables to allow a guitarist to be far from the amp

drmorbius · Post by **drmorbius** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:14 am

Suppose you wanted to record a guitar player but wanted him to be in a different room from his amp. Why? Maybe so that he can monitor on speakers instead of headphones, or so that he can be in the control room with you to better communicate punch ins while his amp is in the studio.

But you don't want to run into the problems caused by long cable runs on an instrument cable.

Is it possible to use adaptors or specially designed cables to go from unbalanced to balanced or something like that to get the player maybe forty feet from the amp?

Oh, and I want to find a solution that doesn't involve re-amping.

Please help!

lyman · Post by **lyman** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:42 am

if it's a head/cabinet amp setup, keep the head in the contol room and the cab in the live room. that way you can use a short cable from the guitar to the amp, and a longer speaker cable.

or, if it's a combo, maybe use it to drive a cabinet in the other room.

curtiswyant · Post by **curtiswyant** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:09 am

wireless?

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:32 am

I wouldn't use wireless for many reasons, including RF and other interference ("Breaker 1-9" is not as common, but still...) as well as possible signal degradation (at least in cheaper models, or with dying batteries, etc.)

The head to cabinet extension would probably be best, but not always do-able if the speaker in the combo is integral to the player's sound, or you don't have space for or even have a cabinet.

However, you could also run the guitar to a line driver to the amp.

After that, I would look to speaker isolation boxes or, egad!, emulators.

Stephen B. · Post by **Stephen B.** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:44 am

This is made specifically for that. Kind of expensive though.

Mix413 · Post by **Mix413** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:50 am

The head in the control room, speaker in the studio is one way.

The LittleLabs PCP Distro has a special feature that lets you run a DI and output the signal through a special higher output jack made for long instrument cable runs. A VERY cool and versatile box but kind of pricey.

RodC · Post by **RodC** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:56 am

A longer speaker cable is one way, may sound the best if the cable is good quality.

If you have 2 passive DI boxes laying around use one with a short cable going from the guitar into a good XLR cable, then at the other end use a DI box backward to go back to unbalanced and into the amp. They must be passive, just a transformer.

I tried this a couple of times, it was OK. I think the speaker wire sounded better. But now I mostly reamp in these situations because if the guitarist cant interact with the speaker (sustain, Feedback) there shouldn't be much difference.

Professor · Post by **Professor** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:24 pm

I went on this hunt a couple years ago and found a couple solutions though oddly enough I didn't buy any because the situation didn't occur as often as I'd expected (because I don't record much electric guitar). I was hoping for a 'single ended' solution, not necessarily meaning unbalanced, but meaning something to place on the guitar/bass side to push the signal to a rackmounted preamp with a DI input. Most folks I contacted said to place the DI at the player's feet as if I didn't know, but they failed to understand that I really didn't want to unrack and move the $3500, 40-lb ViPre that often. Here's what I found:

One suggestion was to use a pair of DI boxes, which defeated the purpose I was seaking, but may help you. Use an inexpensive passive DI like a Groove Tubes PDI (passive, $29 at GC) with one end in normal use and the other side reversed like a reamp. It will work, though you may still lose some highs over a longer run.

Among the only practical products I found back then was made by Colorado-based Pick-up the World which make a couple of preamps and line drivers you can check out here. The concept is simple enough, just boost the signal enough to push it down a longer cable run.

At the time I also contacted Little Labs to see what they might have, and indeed, a couple of their DI boxes have buffered 'line driver' outputs, but nothing really small and below about $300, though they said they were interested in the problem and might consider building something. They have, it's called STD - Signal Transmission Device and while it is a double-ended solution, it is small and about the same price as the Pick-up the world boxes.

There are a handful of other boxes out there for this purpose, some intended to go about 30-feet across a stage and others that are built into bigger DI boxes, but these two seem like the best bet to me.

-Jeremy

apropos of nothing · Post by **apropos of nothing** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:36 pm

3rded on Di-to-un-Di solution.

But, uh, just outta curiousity, how much travel are we talking, here? Cuz if its shorter than say twenty feet, I'd still pretty much just use a guitar cable. Why? Cuz I (mis?-) imagine that 20-foot guitar cable + amp is less lossy/antenna-ey than short guitar cable -> DI -> XLR -> DI -> short guitar cable-> amp.

OTOH DI's are cheap and useful. Check it.

And drop by for a beer, ya punk.

kayagum · Post by **kayagum** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:47 pm

Not the perfect answer, but boxes that lowers your impedance can help.

VHT Valvulator http://www.vhtamp.com/product-news/valvulator1.html

ZVex Super Hard On: http://zvex.com/hardon.html

RodC · Post by **RodC** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:49 pm

I picked up 2 of these $38 plus free shipping

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Two-Whirlwind-EDB ... dZViewItem

nystrec · Post by **nystrec** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:49 pm

But how do you connect 2 DI's with an xlr cable? You can't connect 2 outputs together can you? Plus they're both XLR male.

RodC · Post by **RodC** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:02 pm

A passive DI is just a transformer, yes you can use them either direction. Just make up a cable with 2 female ends, or get a gender changer.

nystrec · Post by **nystrec** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:07 pm

Thanx, I have the same DI's, and didn't think it was that easy. So they could be used in junction as reamp box then right?

apropos of nothing · Post by **apropos of nothing** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:56 pm

nystrec wrote:Thanx, I have the same DI's, and didn't think it was that easy. So they could be used in junction as reamp box then right?

Shhh! Reamp and Little Labs might hear you, and they're advertisers.

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cables to allow a guitarist to be far from the amp

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