Help me make a really crummy kickdrum sound into a good one

[Recycled_Brains]

i'm helping a friend out with a mix, and the kick drum sound that he recorded is pretty bad. very mid-rangy with no real boom or attack at all. and you can hear a creeking sound from his pedal.

i just want to thicken it up and make it loud and punchy. there's a lot of heavy distorted guitars going on as well, so it needs to really cut through....

i'm working with eq and compression plug-ins. i cut around 540 Hz which seemed to help quite a bit with the overload of low mids/mids.

any ideas?

[John Jeffers]

If you're on a DAW, just replace it with a sample. Kick drums are easy to replace since they usually have strong, well-defined transients. Weak sound *and* squeaky pedal problem solved. Do it right, with a good sample, and no one will know it's a sample--they'll just think it's a nice sounding kick. I use a plugin called apTrigga. It's only like $45 bucks, well worth it.

[surf's up]

Im inclined to agree. I wont say Im a huge fan of using samples, but if what youre working with is as bad as you say it is, why not do what you have to to make it usable. Especially in a dense rock mix, its not going to be obvious that you used a sample, except for maybe to the guy you're mixing it for.

If you absolutely dont want to do that, I suggest cutting in the low mids. Maybe try some other frequencies or different bandwidths. I often cut at around 400 on kicks, it gives the guitars a good place to sit and leaves you with the beefy part of the kick. The old adage about one not being able to boost frequencies that arent already there probably applies though. If the original tracks were recorded poorly and lack low-end energy, it could be hard to make the kick do what you want. The last thing you want to do is turn up the volume to make the kick stand out. Nothing is more annoying that a loud cardboardy kick.

[Recycled_Brains]

i don't want to replace it. i like the challenge. anyway, i got it to sound pretty fucking good with eq.

[John Jeffers]

What about the pedal creaking? That's another advantage of using a sound replacer type trigger, it can kill 100% of the dry signal. So pedal noise is eliminated.

I don't understand why some people are so hesitant to use a sample if the song needs it. It's not like the drummer didn't actually play the part. And a kick drum is the easiest instrument to replace and still have it sound realistic.

[joel hamilton]

i don't want to replace it. i like the challenge. anyway, i got it to sound pretty fucking good with eq.

Would you be against layering in a sample along side the crappy original? i do that in this kind of situation, and it retains some character (if you can call it that) of the original, while giving me something solid to lean on in the mix. I use samples of kick drums i have recorded. Remember that using a sample doesnt have to mean "808" or some other electronic sound. i have used soundreplacer to simply trigger "air" around the snare for instance. like a sample of the aftershock of a snare in a room mic, just to get it to sit more properly in the soundtage with everything elese in the kit. Same with for the kick: get the boom in the room without the cymbals and then trigger the room mic as a sample off the kick. Can be amazingly useful.

[cwileyriser]

I also highly recommend Sound Replacer (or equivalent). Challenge is cool, but if you've not used replacement/layering for mediocre kicks and snares before, try it - at least once - and I you'll be pleasantly surprised at how well it fixes them up. Of course, you need to have a variety of good well-recorded samples, but those shouldn't be too hard to find. I've heard drum tracks go from "ehhhh..." to "holy shit!" by mixing well-recorded kick and snare samples in with the original. Even if the drums sound good already, Sound Replacer can be used creatively, as Joel notes.

The worst thing about Sound Replacer is that it's expensive. I was lucky enough to inherit it with my Digi001/PT5 setup I bought used. But if AppTrigga works just as well for $45, it's a major bargain.

[Recycled_Brains]

i don't want to replace it. i like the challenge. anyway, i got it to sound pretty fucking good with eq.

Would you be against layering in a sample along side the crappy original? i do that in this kind of situation, and it retains some character (if you can call it that) of the original, while giving me something solid to lean on in the mix. I use samples of kick drums i have recorded. Remember that using a sample doesnt have to mean "808" or some other electronic sound. i have used soundreplacer to simply trigger "air" around the snare for instance. like a sample of the aftershock of a snare in a room mic, just to get it to sit more properly in the soundtage with everything elese in the kit. Same with for the kick: get the boom in the room without the cymbals and then trigger the room mic as a sample off the kick. Can be amazingly useful.

i like this idea better than just replacing it all together. it's not that i'm against soundreplacing things.... i used to play in a grind band, so everything was either triggered or replaced when it came to kick and sometimes snare, i just want to try to get it to sound good myself before going that route.

[KennyD]

I will often double the kick drum if the original recording isn't all that hot. I try to pick a sample that best "complements" the original track. If the original kick lacks attack, I'll put in a sample that has a good one. If it lacks "oomph," I'll put in a sample to fill that in and roll off the high frequencies of the sample (or do a quick fade in) so it doesn't compete with the original attack.

Good luck!

Kenny D

[i am monster face]

i have used soundreplacer to simply trigger "air" around the snare for instance.

I have never thought of this before. That is amazing. Thank you for that awesome tip. Absolutely amazing.

Ian

[John Jeffers]

The worst thing about Sound Replacer is that it's expensive...if AppTrigga works just as well for $45, it's a major bargain.

I don't know how it compares to Sound Replacer because I've never used Sound Replacer. But I can tell you that apTrigga is a great, flexible plugin (VST or AU), and well worth the $45.

http://apulsoft.ch/aptrigga/index.php

I used it to blend samples in with the original kick and snare on my latest project. Huge, amazing difference.

[MikeCzech]

I came in here expecting to read the obvious.. Sound Replacer, and Side Chaining a sine wave.. I can't believe I didn't see the latter..

Dude, just side chain a sine wave, I like the 55Hz neighborhood (Key of A), tweek it for the key of the song..

[drumsound]

You might also mult the BD to a few tracks and tweak each sound for a different purpose. Fid that bit of asttack and crank it and kill evenrthing else. Same with the thump. You might even gate these 9esp the attack) and blend thatm with the others to make your sound.

[joel hamilton]

i have used soundreplacer to simply trigger "air" around the snare for instance.

I have never thought of this before. That is amazing. Thank you for that awesome tip. Absolutely amazing.

Ian

Gllad you are inspired to try something new!

I just started to wish that i could get the sound of the snare in the room mics without the bashy-crashy cymbal mayhem... so i had the drummer give me a snare hit at the end of the take...viola! Same with the kick. Amazing how you can put some air around the beater and have it just sound AMAZING. Triggering the room mic kick, slight delay and all (or not).

[obermorph]

What's wrong with hearing the pedal squeek? It's a drum kit, they rattle, squeek etc. It's real.
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