To Master, or not to Master re: real indie radio

[chris harris]

sounds like you don't want to spend the money on mastering and you're looking for someone to validate your decision.

don't get it mastered, then. I'm sure it already sounds as good as The Stooges or The VU, bands whose records WERE mastered.

that's one of the things that frustrates me about these boards... people ask for opinions when in fact they just want someone to reinforce the decision they've already made.

why don't you post some links and let people around here tell you if you sound as cool as the stooges.

[junkyardtodd]

I am currently reading "behind the glass". A lot of the old school english guys were of the mindset that when the tapes left their studio they were completely finished, and wanted the mastering engineer to only do a "flat transfer", with no EQ.

One thing you have without any sort of mastering, though, is music which does not sound nearly as loud as a commercially released CD. You might want to consider an intermediate solution, such as Wavelab Essentials (what I use) to limit the peaks, so you can bring the levels up.

[;ivlunsdystf]

Of course, if you are REALLY trying to be "indie" in the strictest sense of the word independent, you don't even NEED listeners, man! You can just listen to your own stuff all by yourself. It'd be good to have a chaperone around when you start snorting that pound of coke though...

[lanterns]

:lol: agreed.
I did want opinions. I thought I was being subtle in developing a conversation.
Thanks for the replies

[Cellotron]

I am currently reading "behind the glass". A lot of the old school english guys were of the mindset that when the tapes left their studio they were completely finished, and wanted the mastering engineer to only do a "flat transfer", with no EQ.

During the days of vinyl after the introduction of tape up to about the mid 70's the vast majority of transfers were in fact done with just the minimal processing necessary to translate the mix to the vinyl medium. In some of the English studio system in fact after graduating from tea boy and then assistant one of the first real jobs a young engineer would be trained for was as a cutting engineer. One of the reasons this was done so that they would know the limitations of the medium first hand so that if they graduated to actually mixing they would be able to make their mix decisions while aware of these things.

Then a couple things happenned: first off, people like Doug Sax, and then later folks like Bob Ludwig, Bernie Grundman and Herbie Powers Jr. etc., started to use processing during mastering not just to accomodate the medium but to also enhance the mix. These records had more "impact" in most cases than ones mastered flat - so the newly formed dedicated mastering studios like Masterdisk & Sterling saw their business boom. Secondly, the studio business became more decentralized - and large studio complexes that contained their own lathes and also had a well defined system and guidelines for their mixes became less prevalent as smaller facilities increased in number - so the need for dedicated mastering studios increased then too. And now with the boom of people with relatively little training, recording with budget gear, and mixing in untuned rooms (often with monitors with questionable accuracy) I'd say there's never been a time needed more for outside mastering.

These days, since the digital delivery mediums have much less limitations than vinyl, a lot of people consider mastering just to be another word for 2buss processing - which unfortunately for the budget studio production often ends up meaning overly heavy handed peak limiting and a chain of plugins that often degrades the sound of the mix more than it enhances.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Cellotron]

for $500 I could get a fresh perspective with a pound of blow.

That'd be a heckuva lot of perspective too!


That's a pretty darn good deal in fact - need someone to go in halves with ya?


Best regards,
Steve Berson

[JohnDavisNYC]

500 a pound.. yeah, that's a pretty sick deal. are you getting a neve 8068 for 2000 bucks, too?



anyway. i vote for mastering in all circumstances. even just for level matching and sequencing... the ME doesn't have to touch the eq or comp at all, and you'll still get your money's worth, in my opinion.

john

[Cyan421]

The thing about the earbuds and and the related.

Good mix engineers have always checked their mixes on the "lowest common denominator" wheather it be a speaker from an old Ford truck dash board, or some new fangled white corded earbuds. Good Mix engineers also check to see what their tune/album will sound like on the radio (if that is a likely release formate of course). By using these types of tools a person achieves better translation.

Also I think people are allready making mixes for low quality mp3. Listen to The Postal Service and you will know what I mean.

[xonlocust]

i think it's a mistake to think that mastering or anything we do in the recording process has much of a bearing on whether or not a label A&R or staion music director will play something. the exception being your local college station (and their local show). well actually, that follows my argument. everything on the business side is about personal relationships and who you know (or hire to know). and of course your local station, you probably know, and they probably know you. but kexp doesn't give a shit about you unless they have specific reason to. (unless you live in seattle say)

personally, i wholly support mastering everything i do. i want it to sound the best it possibly can, but that process is completely divorced from the dissemination of what we create to "the masses" or whatever.

i guess i think this should be separated into two distinct conversations, cuz they're not one and the same:

a) how do you get your stuff played on the college radio

and

b) how do i make my recordings sound the best they can

[jeddypoo]

I tend to think that making a record sound professional is an aesthetic decision more or less on the same level as whether to have the tambourine play 16th notes or just hold down the fours.

I'm not sure if I had a point.

[stinkpot]

ME's slap me back if I'm stepping out of line here, but couldn't you either talk to your ME or send a sheet of notes with your mixes? Tell them "I've been working towards a Stooges type of sound here, can you help me accentuate that?" That type of thing.

It's your recording, you should be able to give direction to those working on it once it's left your immediate control. A good ME should be able to take that in consideration and work with you so that your goal is realized. You want to make sure that it's money well spent!

[JohnDavisNYC]

totally the right thing to do. tell the ME what you want. 'I want this record dark and dynamic' or 'I want this record to be bright and super loud.'

and good ME will give you what you want in the best possible way... 'translating' doesn't mean you don't have any say in the overall sonics.

john

[lanterns]

heyyy
good points all around. thanks again

[Derrick]

A programmer for a wide ranging chain such as Clear Channel will most likely never even give a listen to a second of your music if you don't even have the budget for professional mastering.

I wouldn't think Clear Channel would give a listen either way as they are nothing more then a big hary computer from hell run by satan.

[jeddypoo]

A programmer for a wide ranging chain such as Clear Channel will most likely never even give a listen to a second of your music if you don't even have the budget for professional mastering.

I wouldn't think Clear Channel would give a listen either way as they are nothing more then a big hary computer from hell run by satan.

I just noticed that your little tag thing on the bottom is Chevy Chase! I use that line a lot.