Anatomy of a Queasy Feeling: "fake" reverb

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joelpatterson
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Anatomy of a Queasy Feeling: "fake" reverb

Post by joelpatterson » Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:23 pm

Anything you do over and over, you develop a system that works. A methodology. When I show up to record a concert, I'll scope out the venue, the musicians, the singers, talk to whoever's in charge--that's usually the personal putting their John Hancock on the little line at the bottom right corner--and get a sense of the show and the dynamics and the highlights, any special bizarre stage management--the whole warp and woof of the experience.

And even though this will end up as a stereo CD, I tend to mic in surround, just to capture everything, and then I'll throw up a some oddball room mics, wherever the moods strikes me right. I don't do alot of thinking here, just instinctively, what seems good. You don't want your formula turning into a straitjacket.

So no matter how craftily I game everything, when I throw all the faders up on all the tracks, it sounds good... y'know... sounds fine... but it doesn't really sound exciting or anything. That's what I'm trying to get when I dip this EQ or compress that, get some kind of action going.

So one time I created a stereo aux, and I set up a reverb that approximated the hall, and holy shit! It really made stuff leap out of the speakers, you could hear more clearly things going on. I turned it off. I said, "Don't do this, it's wrong, you hear me?" But then I listened to it with the reverb on and it just sounded better, way better, holy here to Hell and back way better.

So now I do that every time, I always tell myself I won't need it, I can make it sound good just with what it was, and every time I send a room mic into the hall, sometimes the main mics too. I feel like a reverb junkie, shamefully sneaking around... is there a support group for people like me?
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Post by Professor » Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:25 am

All the support you'll ever need is right here at Reverberators Anonymous.


But seriously - what's the problem? If your recordings sound better, and the clients like them, and you are getting paid, what's the problem?
You could try to pull more natural reverb out of the hall, but how much more audience and HVAC noise will you bring along for the ride? I imagine you are placing your main array fairly close to the front of the stage, maybe right above the conductor? If that makes the instruments or voices sound great, but kinda dry then just add in some extra hall. Most classical musicians I've worked with (especially out here) have wanted more reverb than I felt comfortable adding in, but I do it and they are happier with the sound. If you're really concerned about it, just make two copies of a couple tracks with and without reverb and give them to the conductor. If he (or she) is cool with the sound of the track with reverb, then that's what counts.


Funny thing, I was writing about this (kinda) in the other thread about reverb techniques. TC has a noise reduction program for the 6000 that includes a "room reduction" algorithm. I'm going to test out the algorithm to see if I can dry up some overly live halls, at least a little, and maybe even suck out enough of the room sound to add in another sound altogether and effectively move the ensemble to a different space.

-Jeremy

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Post by OM15.2 » Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:17 am

yeah Joel, aren't you the "whatever sounds better is better guy?"
put compression eq verb delay and wah on that aux and stand proud!

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Post by Mark Alan Miller » Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:05 am

I understand that "uneasy feeling" - but I agree - whatever works.
I just mixed this rock-n-roll documentary, and some of the live shots had really horrid options for sources, like one channel of distorted board feed and one channel of camera mic. That's it. Nothing else. Funny, tho', when I dug into it, panned the two channels together, center, eq'd some nasties out, then put some 'verb on the distorto channel and stereo slapback on the camera mic, lo and behold!
Peculiar how what seems "rong" and be so "rite". :)
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Anechoic Chamber - The Anti-'verb

Post by Bill @ Irie Lab » Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:53 am

Folks,

For the Intel DAW contingent - here is a cool, great sounding (if subtle), freebee plug that can help undo ill-considered choice of tracking room or previous processing.

Get it here: http://bram.smartelectronix.com/plugins.php?id=5

Yes, Virginia, there are great free tools.

Happy Holidys,

Bill
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Irie Lab Sound Studios

***** Sound Science & Soul *****

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joelpatterson
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Post by joelpatterson » Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:22 am

Tanks fellas... just--don't tell anyone, okay?
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Post by drumsound » Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:56 am

joelpatterson wrote:Tanks fellas... just--don't tell anyone, okay?
What's it worth to you for me to keep my mouth shut?

:wink:

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Post by JohnDavisNYC » Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:07 pm

$35.

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Post by brakeshop » Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:25 pm

Shocked, shocked and appalled am I at such shady doings. If Joel were honest, he would include a sticker that says "Recorded with REVERB!", or "Recorded by a charlatan whose only mission is to make more money by adding reverb to everything!". If I were him I would also add a voiceover on top of the recording that kept repeating "recorded with reverb", "recorded with reverb". anyway, I'm not sure adding reverb is a some huge sin if you're trying to match what you heard live, you're trying to be true to what you heard (or thought you were recording). and where can I get my $35?

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Post by AstroDan » Sun Dec 18, 2005 1:28 pm

People are afraid of reverb today. Use it. And make it fake. Unless you feel like dragging your shit to the nearest 60 foot long ceramic tiled hallway and cathedral.

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Post by jca83 » Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:49 pm

i know a guy who records every performance of the major orchestra in my area...

he busses everything through reverb; given, it's usually four mics, but he pours the reverb on. and people eat it up. and it sounds good. the reason is, the orchestra and directors think, "MY hall made that sound?! awesome!!"

but, it does sound really good. it's unnatural, but normal... it's ok. breathe. relax.
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Re: Anechoic Chamber - The Anti-'verb

Post by lifeintime » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:06 pm

Bill @ Irie Lab wrote:Folks,

For the Intel DAW contingent - here is a cool, great sounding (if subtle), freebee plug that can help undo ill-considered choice of tracking room or previous processing.

Get it here: http://bram.smartelectronix.com/plugins.php?id=5

Yes, Virginia, there are great free tools.

Happy Holidys,

Bill
Anybody try the Anechoic Room Simulator yet. Says it was released on April 1st. I am always suspicious of April 1st things. I think that there is a phobia for that, but it escapes my mind at the moment.

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Bill @ Irie Lab
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Post by Bill @ Irie Lab » Wed Dec 21, 2005 6:51 am

To clairify,

I've just used it to 'de-verb' some drum samples that have been over processed. I'd be interested to hear of the results when used on track or a full mix myself.

Happy Holidays to music makers everwhere,

Bill
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jca83
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Post by jca83 » Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:00 am

i'd love it if there was an apple version of those plugs...
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jmiller
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Post by jmiller » Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:14 pm

I'll bet it won't be long before someone makes a "Lexicons Have No Soul" bumper sticker.

I say throw that verb on there, Def Leppard style. Or at least, don't be afraid to use it if is sounds good.

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