Micing a Snare

Vern · Post by **Vern** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:15 pm

OK,

So there's a million threads on how to mic drums. Here's my problem. How do you make a snare drum sound like a snare drum. I always mic my snare with a 57 about a half an inch from the head on the edge of the head. I've never been happy. How do I mic a snare to make it sound natural? Mics, distance, effects? What do you guys do?

-Vern

blacklisted · Post by **blacklisted** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:23 pm

i usually mic the top and the bottom (reversing the phase on the bottom mic) and blend em together... i just play around with distance and angle til i get somethin good...

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 12:12 am

After you've made sure the drum sounds good in the room...

1. Lose the 57
2. angle the mic so it points at around a 45 degree angle (to start)
3. make sure the snare sounds good in the OH and room mics
4. Lose the 57

Just some ideas off the top of my head.

MikeCzech · Post by **MikeCzech** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:53 am

I get more realistic snare drum sounds out of my room and overheads than I do my snare mics. In fact the top head is hardly in my mixes at all, but I do tend to crank the bottom head to get it to cut through the mix.

Ever since they popped up at my door step my bottom head mic has pretty much been one of my tape op ribbin mics. It has such a natural response and you can can get a little more action out of your pre's as opposed to mics of other elements.

It has the best response I've heard out of any other mic in my studio under a snare and just seems to make the most sense. Give it a shot if you've got one..

Vern · Post by **Vern** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 7:09 am

Actually, I have a pair of the Tape Op Ribbons. I just never thought to try them on my snare. This will be interesting.

cgarges · Post by **cgarges** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 8:25 am

To me, a 57 flatters virtually none of the characteristics that make a snare drum sound like a snare drum. But, it's what many people have been using for years, so why bother checking out other options, right?

I always listen to the drum in the room, take into consideration what the material sounds like and then select a mic that will flatter the sound of that particular drum, hopefully in the context of the material. I haven't found one mic that will work this way in every situation, because what is required to achieve a snare sound like Crosby, Stills, and Nash's Daylight Again album is a different set of requirements to achieve the snare sound on "Tripping On a Hole In A Paper Heart." Through years of experimentation, I have found a few things that consistently work better than others and in many instances, those are what I wind up using.

Once I have a suitable mic in place, I try to use common sense mic technique adjustments to fine-tune. If the drum needs a little more stick sound, I'll aim the mic more towards where the stick is coming in contact with the head (which isn't ALWAYS center). If the drum is too closed-sounding, I might move the mic back a bit or switch to a wider mic pattern (omni, wide cardioid, whatever). If there's too much leakage from something like the hi hat and I can afford the increase in low end from proximity effect, I might switch to a figure eight mic, but I might not if there's a splash cymbal or something directly in the rear lobe of the mic.

But like pretty much everything about recording, there's give and take involved. Unless you're gating all your close mics and mixing with overheads really quiet (like many 80s metal records), the snare sound will be determined by a combination of all the mics in the vacinity. So, if the snare is brighter than you want in the overheads, you may want a slightly fatter snare sound in the close mic or vice-versa. If you compress your overheads AND your snare mic, but the snare now sounds too compressed, lose the compression on the close mic(s) and see if you like it better. Same goes for room mics, tom mics, kick drum mics, etc. Don't just listen to the sound of the close snare drum and rely on that for determining the sound of the drum in the mix. And if it sounds cool with all the mics in the kit up but the snare mic sounds bad soloed, who cares?

By the way, yesterday I tried a Blue Mouse on the snare drum for the first time. Holy crap, was that cool!

Hope this helps.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

Dave Nutz · Post by **Dave Nutz** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 8:27 am

try blending two very differnt sounding close mics on snare...i usually go for 1 dynamic( either a 609, I5, or 57), blended with a LD condensor(usually something im not afraid to break.)

then mix to taste with overheads.

sonic dogg · Post by **sonic dogg** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 10:39 am

I like my 57. Its a really old Unidyne III and it sounds considerably different than current 57's(which I have a couple of)..I also like the Audix D2 or the i5. My favorite snare mic of all time has to be the Beyer 201. Of all of them its the most natural sounding for snare. However...the Unidyne is THE sound of rock snare and has been for umpteen hundred years. I used to mic the bottom head and havent in a long time. Maybe its because I'm getting what I need out of the snare I usually record.

This is, of course, THE most important part of all........the snare itself. I guess the 25 year-old Ludwig is still okay.

Bedfordstop · Post by **Bedfordstop** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 11:17 am

I personally like a snare that sounds like ripping two pieces of velcro apart (SHSHCHCHTTTT!) as opposed to one that has any kind of pitch (i hate a Ska snare that goes DOIK!)

Here is what i usually do -

I have never had luck micing the bottom of the snare. I put 57 on top of snare. But the POSITIONING is vital. I actually have the mic about 1/2 inch beyond the rim, never hanging over the drum. And i don't point it 45 degrees down toward the skin, i actually point it at 90 degrees over the top of the drum, parallel with the floor.

Then I typically gate it during the mix - but not a full on gate, set the noise floor about halfway up, so that it doesn't sound too "Gate-ish" just enough to kill a bit of the hi hat which will bleed in quite a bit - then i use the EQ to find out where the DOIK sound is - usually around 500 K to 800 K and pull a lot of that frequency out, then i boost around 1.5 k to 2 k.

Then my friend - I Smash it like an enraged toddler. Like, obliterate it with compression on super fast release. That gives it a nice tail. You will have to play with it to get it to sound not to fake, but it gives me the sound i am looking for.

Also, play with the compression on your room mics. That often gets me the sound i am looking for on the snare. My snare often sounds great on microphones set up in a different room.

;ivlunsdystf · Post by **;ivlunsdystf** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 11:17 am

Coolest snare I've ever heard was something I witnessed in that "Sympathy For the Devil" movie. C. Watts is just puttering around as they set up the room and work up the arrangement and it appears that he's just going into two overheads. Obviously a well-tuned snare drum there too, and a fine drummer helps as well. I don't know, it's been a while since I saw it, maybe they had a mic right on the snare as well, but I've always thought it was just the combo of good drummer, good drum, good room, good overheads.

blacklisted · Post by **blacklisted** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:10 pm

good overheads definately contribute alot to a good snare sound... i mostly use the top head mic to get the attack, the bottom head mic to get the snares, and the overheads to fill in the rest of the "sound"...

Professor · Post by **Professor** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:12 pm

Vern wrote:I always mic my snare with a 57 about a half an inch from the head on the edge of the head. I've never been happy.

They say that the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over while expecting different results.
Sorry Vern, there was just something about that line you wrote that made me giggle.

I think that all of the answers are in the above posts there. I of course, am particularly fond of reminding guys that the overheads come first because they are going to pick up the overall sound of the kit with the close snare mic only adding a little 'presence' and 'attack'.
I also agree thoroughly with Chris's response there which might be considered dastardly since he didn't mention a single brand/model/placement formula, but he said something that should be incredibly obvious - it depends. Ask someone what the best mic for recording vocals is, and you should rightfully receive a slap upside the head. What kind of singer, what kind of song, what kind of band, all need to be known first, and even then it's hard to say without actually hearing the singer. So what's the best mic for snare? SLAP! A steel piccolo snare in a reggae band, or an 8" deep wood snare in a death metal band? If you're going to approach them both with a 57 peeking over the edge of the drum, angled at 45? or whatever, then you're not likely going to get the sound you want on one of the drums if not both. Listen to the drum and it will tell you what microphone you need. Maybe it needs to sound bigger or smaller or brighter or darker, or maybe it's perfect as is and need the most neutral thing you've got. And then maybe the overheads are already giving you everything you need.

-Jeremy

cgarges · Post by **cgarges** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:41 pm

sonic dogg wrote:However...the Unidyne is THE sound of rock snare and has been for umpteen hundred years.

Funny. I always thought that there was more than one sound of rock snare that depended on factors other than the drum itself.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

stui · Post by **stui** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 4:17 am

I've been struggling with snare sounds lately...
The 57 on the top and a condenser on the chain (usually a Rode NT3 hypercardiod) haven't been getting me there - I get the stick and the fizz but the body or warmth that I hear in the room isn't there.

I think the comments about the overheads are important.
My new approach involves starting the mic setup with overheads, getting them sounding good and then introducing close mics one at a time - all the while checking that their positioning reinforces the overheads, rather than detracting or muddying things up.
A book I've been reading suggests this is all down to phase - am I correct?

Stu

MikeCzech · Post by **MikeCzech** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:21 am

...Another technique that brings out the body and the ringing of the snare is the hammer the hell out of a compressor with the room signal. Slightly slower attack to emphasize the transients.

You get a hamonic distorion that, depending on your compressor, gives you that fuzzy little feeling in your tummy every time the snare hits. It's a good idea to mult it with a clean signal to blend the flavors as needed. (Sometimes hihats can be a little out of control)

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