What mic to buy?

[FoundationSound]

If you could buy any vocal specific (sounding good all around, female, male, adult or child) mic to start your collection off right, what would it be if:

(1) Money was not an issue...
(2) You wanted to spend less than $2k...


I was thinking about going tube cause I'm feeling some harshness in my non-tube mics (NT2, AT3035) these days. Not that these are the greatest mics ever built or anything but that's kinda why I'm here in the first place. I was thinking Neumann U87AI or M147. Maybe a M149 if I had the extra cash. Is it worth it? Any comments?

[Meriphew]

Money no object = either an original Tele/Neumann U47 w/VF14, or an original Tele 251.

Under $2k = used Soundelux E250 along with a Shure SM7 (that should come in just under $2k for both mics).

[KennyLusk]

It's just my opinion but if you're feeling harshness from an NT2 or an AT 3035 then I'd forget about looking at a different mic and look at a different mic pre instead. Both of those mics are excellent mics with plenty of bass end and low mids and you shouldn't be feeling any harshness in the high's on either of them.

[red cross]

SM7. Might not be the best mic for everyone, but its seldom the worst, either.

[MikeCzech]

I've had problems with sibilance on vocals with every mic I own until I got my AKG C414 XLII's. Apparently the innerds are basically a U87, I haven't used a U87 so I can't tell you first hand. I'll tell you that the C414 XLII id the smoothest mics I've ever used, it makes a joke of every other LDC I own (nothing else over $700). I've used all your basic under $1K mics.

I own a Rode K2 (it's tube, and I'd consider it my most harsh mic of all - so not sure if tube is the way to go). I'm sure something magical happens once you surpass that $2K threshold, so my K2, although a great mic for many things, might not be a valid determining factor here.

The other beauty about my C414's is that I can really hear an amazing audible difference among preamps, far more drastically than any of my other mics.

[Madguitrst]

Although I'm not exactly a mic expert, I have had more than my share of mid priced mics on down (including the Soundelux U195, Rode K2 and NTK, etc).

Without any hesitation whatsoever, for $2,000 I would recommend a Peluso 22 47 and 22 251. I just don't think you can cover more gorund as well for so little $$$, although it is just above your price point.

[the brill bedroom]

You'll note that virtually any discussion of vocal mics eventually comes around to u87s. It seems like every condensor mic ever made is "essentially the same as an 87"- I've heard that about dozens of mics, but i never hear anybody saying that an 87 sounds like anything else. Mind you, I'm not captain experience here, but I've sung into 15 or so 87s over the years and they didn't all sound the same.

That said, i sang into a Soundelux mic the other night that sounded absolutely killer. Don't know the model, but it was a short bodied tube condensor and it was probably the most natural sounding vocal mic i've ever used.

[Professor]

It's just my opinion but if you're feeling harshness from an NT2 or an AT 3035 then I'd forget about looking at a different mic and look at a different mic pre instead. Both of those mics are excellent mics with plenty of bass end and low mids and you shouldn't be feeling any harshness in the high's on either of them.

Amazing, that's just what I was ranting about in that thread about all the single channel mic preamps. When you only have two microphones in your collection, that is hardly time to be buying upgraded preamps to change your sound. You will get much more variation in sound by changing a microphone. A $200 mic through a $1000 preamp won't effect your sound nearly as much as a $1000 mic through a $200 preamp.

Now the tricky thing about your problem is that the "best all-around" microphone is necessarily going to be something very neutral - a broad, flat frequency response with little coloration. But the mics you listed are fairly neutral - not measurement-style flat by any means, but pretty neutral. To get both neutral but with a warm character, I would think of a large diaphragm, edge terminated capsule and transformerless electronics. That would give you some of the tonal characters of a tube mic, but without the extra harmonic distortion and slow response that can make the microphone favor some voices more than others.
So with that in mind, for the cost no object range, I'd probably say a Neumann U-89. For the cost-prohibited side, I'd say either the Neumann TLM-193 (same capsule in cardioid only) or the AKG 414 XLII which is multi-pattern as well.
And I'm definitely on the side with Meriphew to consider more than one mic. That's the absolute surest way to get a mic that is "universal" - just get more than one, and where your vocal mic collection is lacking is in the large-diaphragm dynamic area. You could potentially finnd a TLM-193, an SM-7 or RE-20, and a PPA/Shinybox/Nady ribbon and still land under $2k and be ready for absolutely anything.

-Jeremy

[luckybastard]

professor, i feel like an idiot even responding to your post being that you have much more experience recording than i do, but i have to strongly but respectfully disagree. a great pre can make all the mics you have soundlike different mics. my first 2 pres were the focusrites in my mbox and the pres in my soundcraft m12. the mics i had(57's, vintage ev, octava 219 and 012's) sounded kind of blah through those pres. i then buit a hamptone tube pre and i'm in love with those mics now. i doubt buying a $2k mic and putting it through those pres would make me say the same thing about those preamps. just my $.02 from my pov.

[FoundationSound]

Thanks for all the great feedback!

[Professor]

Whoa there, lucky, don't feel like an idiot. Certainly not on my account, and never when you are talking about your own experience. That is the only information on this or any messageboard you can rely on to be 100% accurate.
I agree that a great preamp can make all your mics sound different. Hell, a piece of shit preamp can make all your mics sound different. But changing microphones is always going to be a faster path to different sounds, because you are actually changing equipment at one of the most crucial points in a signal path, the point of transduction. That's where one form of energy (acoustic pressure waves) are transduced into another form of energy (alternating current) and where the first step in amplification happens, whether electronically in a condenser mic or through a transformer in a dynamic mic. Preamps are of similar, but secondary importance as they provide one of the increases in voltage anywhere along the signal path.
There's no question the two are intrinsically linked, but audible changes happen faster at the microphone.
And I don't mean to say that you should never buy better preamps, but to have one or two lower-end mics and then start chasing down preamps seems a bit premature. Your specific experience may vary, but this is my opinion of this path in general.
I figure that if a particular microphone makes your voice sound like ass, then it's silly to try to find a preamp to act as a "de-assing" tool. If you instead go on a hunt for a microphone that makes your voice sound almost perfect, maybe 90% there, then you find a preamp to push you across the threshold to pick up that last 10%.
Actually now that I write that, it seems like a pretty good analogy...
Think of the ideal ratio as the microphone providing perhaps 70% of your sound and the preamp providing 30%. If your mic is only getting you 50% of the sound you want then you're putting a hell of a burden on the preamp and in all likelihood, a really good preamp may still only provide 30% and so you'll be trying to make up the remaining 20% with EQ, compression and other tools that you will need to use for 'correction' of the original sound, instead of 'sweetening' of the original sound. I your mic is only getting you 30% of the way there, your struggle just keeps getting harder and harder.

This of course if starting to get more philosophical and is kind stealling the thread... sorry.

But...
This is a very timely discussion.
Today I had a visit from Cataldo. It's rare that I have visitors from the 'board - in fact he's the first.
We spent almost 6 hours in the studio conducting a fairly comprehensive mic shootout working through much of my mic locker on both guitar and some voice.
It's not scientific by any means, and neither was it set in any kind of 'clean-room' type of environment, but we ran through lots of mics and a few preamps.
The test began with 4 identical mics run through 4 preamps, my Yamaha console, a Grace 801, and two Vipres set at their extreme impedence & rise time settings. We ran 3 of these tests with 4x AT-4051 small-diaphragm condensers, 4x SM-57s, and 4x MD-421s just to get a baseline reference for the difference in the preamps. No question there were differences, some subtle and some not so subtle, and the subjective ears can decide which was better for a given mic.
Then we used just the Grace preamps and recorded groups of 3 to 5 mics at a time all recording the same 40sec snippet of guitar and sometimes voice. The mics included the AT-4051 (SDC), AT-4050 (LDC), MBHO 603 & 648 (SDCs), Earthworks SR-77, Neumann TLM-193, TLM-103, U-87 (vintage), U-67, U-48, Gefell M-930, AKG C414b ULS, AEA R-84, RCA 77d, TOMB ribbon, SM-57, SM7, RE-20, ND-468, and probably a couple others I'm forgetting. They were grouped in dynamics, SDCs, LDCs, tubes, & ribbons.

It will take a couple days to compile all the tracks onto a CD, and then I'll convert them to mp3 and post them to a webpage along with photos and notes. I'll probably also try to make the CD or full-bandwidth AIFF files available in some way as well, maybe I'll mail them to folks in exchange for a couple of bucks via PayPal or something just to cover postage. I'll see about that later.
Either way, I'll be keeping the group informed as this shows up on a page, and it may prove helpful to those considering new mic purchases.

-Jeremy

[doctari]

This thread starts with the question i came for today. Can someone explain the differences referenced by the suffix initials on the AKG c414.

[luckybastard]

good points professor. i'm pretty much in agreement with you on that. i guess if you have one quality preamp already then the return on investment of switching preamps will be lower than if you change mics being that a $2000 mic on a shit preamp is still going to sound like shite.. but if you have shitty preamps then a move to a quality preamps can make all the difference in the world for all the mics you have. i really am looking forward to hearing your files, professor.

[FoundationSound]

Doctari, over the years there have been several 414's made. In my opinion, a couple of them sound way better than the others. Unfortunately, some very different 414's have been marked with the same suffix's so if you're in the market for a 414 I believe you can search this forum for a complete list of all the different kinds and how to spot them. I liked the old 414 EB.


Also, I don't think my pre is the problem. I use Avalon / Neve / Trident (and I love them all, I sing all of them a luliby when I go to sleep).

[Echos Myron]

If you live in Denton, give The Echo Lab a call and see if you could maybe rent/check out some of their mics. They have a great studio and gear. It's where Will Johnson and Centro-matic have recorded.
www.theecholab.com