drum overheads - getting a good ride cymbal sound

joninc · Post by **joninc** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:52 pm

this past year i got a pair of 451's (newer) and have been using them for drum overheads which i like but i am having a hard time getting enough
definition on the ride cymbal - how low do you guys put your overheads? it seems like the 451's, although they are cardoid - aren't a very tight pattern and get lots of ambient sound.

what types of mics work well as a "ride cymbal mic"?

any advice would be great - thanks!

Dave Nutz · Post by **Dave Nutz** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:41 am

try some sort of Small Diaphragm mic as a dedicated ride mic.
as for recomendations...

cheap:
mxl603s
oktava MK/MC012

not so cheap
shure SM81

im not awake enough to remember numbers but someone else will undoubtedly offer thier opinion.

Doublehelix · Post by **Doublehelix** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:50 am

I've been using a dedicated ride cymbal mic for quite a while now, and it really helps. I rarely bring it up in the mix until I need it for bridge or something that has heavy ride.

Also, I have found that I like miking the ride from underneath rather than on top. Helps the focus a bit and can minimize the bleed from the other cymbals.

cgarges · Post by **cgarges** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:34 am

Strangely enough, when I want a ride cymbal mic, I usually use a 451.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

Mark Alan Miller · Post by **Mark Alan Miller** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:22 am

I often put a spot mic on the ride, too - especially if the drummer sets it really low in comparison to the other cymbals (which can create other problems...)
I use whatever is handy, as it's usually only added in a touch for definition...

MikeCzech · Post by **MikeCzech** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:19 pm

It's so simple, yet so effective..

Once I put a 57 on a ride because my mic options were so limited, and you know what.. I loved it.. Haven't had a reason to change yet - when I mic a ride I just grab a 57 without second thought. Up close, off axis under the bell.

Stephen B. · Post by **Stephen B.** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:02 pm

I once got a great ride sound by using an LDC on the floor tom, either from direct bleed or reflections off the drum head. I imagine this only works when the ride is set pretty low near the tom, but that day it worked beautifully.

Mark Alan Miller · Post by **Mark Alan Miller** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:12 pm

Stephen B. wrote:I once got a great ride sound by using an LDC on the floor tom, either from direct bleed or reflections off the drum head. I imagine this only works when the ride is set pretty low near the tom, but that day it worked beautifully.

That kind of bleed sometimes works well for me too, but sometimes...

...it's a complete pain in my ass. ding! ding! ding! ding!

Mix413 · Post by **Mix413** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:37 pm

Along with the usual spot mics, we've been using a pair of the TapeOp ribbon mics in XY about 5 feet in front of the kit slightly to the ride side to pick up the entire drum sound. The ride cymbal seems to rise it self right into place when you bring that stereo pair up in the mix. Works well with a pair of SD condensers also. We don't even use overheads sometimes as this pair picks up the cymbals quite well.

thethingwiththestuff · Post by **thethingwiththestuff** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:41 pm

damn, i gotta be the guy to say:

start with the right ride and the right stick...

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 10:45 pm

If you don't want to spot mic the ride (for whatever reason) you might consider raising the ride cymbal. A lot of the 'old-school' session guy had their rides high for that reason. Look at Gadd or Jeff Pocorro's set-ups.

bniesz · Post by **bniesz** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:06 pm

Dr.Nutz wrote:try some sort of Small Diaphragm mic as a dedicated ride mic.
as for recomendations...

oktava MK/MC012

yes.

nipsy · Post by **nipsy** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:32 pm

thethingwiththestuff wrote:damn, i gotta be the guy to say:

start with the right ride and the right stick...

plus the right player....

Professor · Post by **Professor** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:21 pm

thethingwiththestuff wrote:damn, i gotta be the guy to say:
start with the right ride and the right stick...

I'm glad someone tossed that in there. A lot of 'definition' problems can be the playing style applied to that particular ride with those sticks.
With the drumset I just bought for the studio I picked up two ride cymbals. One is a very thick and heavy 22" Sabian Paragon which is bright and pingy and great for rock styles and some jazz players. But I also have lots of jazz players that use the ride as a crash cymbal during their ride patterns, side-sticking the cymbal to get a bigger washy tone. That works great for live clubs to mask the sound of a noisy audience but loses definition in the studio. So I have a second ride, a darker sounding 20" Zildjian K that is thinner at the edge so it 'crashes' better but is thicker in towards the middle so the tip of the stick will still pull through better definition.
If they are not using my cymbals, then I am careful to listen to theirs and choose brighter mics to pull the articulation out of a dark, splashy ride like the Bosphorous or Istanbuls that lots of the jazz kids like to bring in.
Oh and I don't think I've ever felt a need to a dedicated ride mic.

It's also possible that some of your troubles are coming from reflections off the side walls and/or ceilings in the room. If the ride sound is bouncing off drywall and arriving at the mics a few ms later than the direct sound, you may be getting some comb filtering that's causing some bumps and dips in difficult frequencies. Absorbant materials to the sides and diffusive materials above might improve your sound with any cymbal and any mic.

-Jeremy

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drum overheads - getting a good ride cymbal sound

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