Budget Preamp Comparison

LDT2 · Post by **LDT2** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:14 am

I have 3 EH 12AY7 pre's and IMHO they're amazing for the $$$.

I think the major reason that alot of people are having problems is because they're, 1) running unbalanced, which will cause a bad hum and, 2) using the TRS out instead of the XLR.

The XLR out is VERY quiet and clean ( slight hiss but it is a tube. I run a pad and the hiss is gone).
The TRS out turns this into a completely different sounding pre, which will overdrive more easily (which could be a good thing if you're looking for that effect).

Running some drum overheads through 2 12AY7 pre's, I could hear ( visualize) the cymbals actually coming forward, out of the monitors vs my other pre's.
3D for sure.

I'm looking forward to trying other tubes for different color. Very versitile.

I have no connection to EH or anything else to do with this product. I just read on different forums about this pre, from people like Joel who I feel have the experience to know what they're talking about.

Every possitive thing said about this pre has been accurate, including the need to use a balanced input ( can use passive direct box if necessary) from the XLR out to achieve the ultimate results.

I'm looking forward to buying a couple more of these pre's myself.

Just my 2 cents.

Lucio

8th_note · Post by **8th_note** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:52 pm

Just for the record, the 12AY7 is hooked directly to my Delta 1010 using the XLR output on the pre. It's definitly running balanced. It hums like a mofo otherwise.

I would also like to make a general comment about the 12AY7. When somebody designs a component like this at such an aggressive price point there's going to be tradeoffs. If you spend five times as much money the tradeoffs pretty much go away. I love this pre and feel very fortunate to get this level of sound for under 200 bucks. I'm looking forward to a rackmount version with a more robust power supply and hopfully a little more gain.

The reason for my post, however, is to ask analoghacker a couple of tube questions. I'm going to play with my toys this weekend and I've got a bunch of tubes to try out. In another thread you noted a few things about tubes but I would like to clarify - so here goes:

1) Which tube types will work in the left side of the pre?

2) Which tube types will work in the right side of the pre?

3) If I want to maximize the gain in the unit, what type of tubes should I use?

I have the following tubes at my disposal: 12AU7, 12AT7, 12AX7, and 12AX7 ECC803s high gain.

LDT2 · Post by **LDT2** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:14 pm

8th note,

Here's a thread where analoghacker comments on tubes and the "balanced" inputs on soundcards.

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... &&start=30

The Delta 1010 must be set at +4db or it's not balanced.

Hope this helps.[/url]

8th_note · Post by **8th_note** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:41 pm

Thanks, LTD2. That tells me what I need to know.

LDT2 · Post by **LDT2** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 8:09 pm

Cool.

8th_note · Post by **8th_note** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:52 pm

I did some tube rolling this weekend on the 12AY7. I tried several different tube combinations using the following tubes: Mullard 12AU7, Mullard 12AT7, Mullard 12AX7, JJ/Tesla 12AX7, JAN Phillips 12AX7, & EI 12AX7.

Overall the change in sound is pretty subtle (at least on acoustic guitar) but one very important thing came out of this. When I replaced the stock 12AU7 with a Mullard 12AT7 the hiss that had been an annoyance went completely away. This thing is now dead quiet.

Regarding the sound, my favorite combination turned out to be a Mullard 12AT7 in the left side and the stock 12AY7 tube in the right side. I tried several different replacements for the 12AY7 but the stock tube just seemed a little warmer and fuller.

LDT2 · Post by **LDT2** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:15 pm

Very cool!

I'll have to give that a try.

Thanks for the info.

dgrieser · Post by **dgrieser** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:02 am

I'm really liking a NOS Sylvania JAN 12AT7 in the EH12ay7 as well. I bought some 12au7 tubes, but there's just something more pleasing about the 12at7 than any of the 12au7s. I did find the differences in 12au7s very subtle, but the 12at7 was a very distinct difference. More articulate I think.

taperocket · Post by **taperocket** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:14 pm

have you tried swapping any tubes in the Art? Out of the test I'd have to go with the EH because its low end seemed a bit more focused than the art. Jokes on me, I just ordered the art! I wonder if tube swapping or playing with the impedance on the ART would lead to more desireable results?

taperocket · Post by **taperocket** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:19 pm

after listening more I think there's just more bass but it is just as focused...

inky · Post by **inky** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:55 pm

fremitus wrote:nice work here, way to go.

to me though, that 12AY7 sounds like ass. kindof like it's pressing the sound through a hole that it won't quite fit in.

It must be torture being you. My 12AY7 doesn't do that to me but I can really imagine having that feeling about a sound.

8th_note · Post by **8th_note** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:21 pm

have you tried swapping any tubes in the Art?

Yeah, I've tried several tubes in the my Pro Channels and my MPA Gold. As of now I've got a Mullart 12AT7 in one Pro Channel, a Mullard 12AX7 in the other Pro Channel, a Jan Phillips 12AX7WA in one channel of the MPA, and a JJ/Tesla 803s (12AX7 High Gain) in the other MPA channel. I just got a Westinghouse 12DF7 that I haven't tried yet.

My opinion up to this point is that I like the sound of the Mullard 12AT7 the best - which is interesting because that was my favorite tube in the EH 12AY7 pre. The best I can describe the sound is to say that it has a fuller, rounder character that's a little more laid back than the Mullard 12AX7. The JJ/Tesla is more upfront with a little more sparkle and the Jan Phillips is somewhere in the middle. All of these tubes were a noticable step up from the stock Chinese 12AX7s.

I am really pleased with my preamp collection at this point. I've upgraded the tubes in all 5 channels of my tube pres and I replaced the opamps in my Presonus MP20. All seven channels sound pretty decent.

Dave-H · Post by **Dave-H** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:43 pm

I have a cheap Behringer tube ultra gain Mic pre that has a 12 AX7A. Sounded pretty good for what it cost. I put a Groove tubes 12AX7 in it & WOW really warmed that thing up. Been running a bass through it as a DI & I have to say that the thirty five bucks for the Mic pre & sixteen for the new tube were worth it. Cheap stuff "CAN" rule!

Dave Huffman

ampguy · Post by **ampguy** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:20 am

if you could toss into the comparison mix a channel from the behringer mx602a, ub802, and that new one (vipre?)?

alissa · Post by **alissa** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:26 pm

now that's what i'm talking about. this is totally what i was looking for.

if only ampguy wasn't here.

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Budget Preamp Comparison

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