Why do drummers go go soo crazy with cymbals

[r0ck1r0ck2]

fuking ruined this song...
godDAMN IT
as bad as metal shredders and all that wank...
sooo pissed off..
so so pissed off

[mingus2112]

interesting you should mention this. . .i was just rewatching one of my tom lubin VHS tapes a copule years ago (Shaping your sound with Microphones) and a few things hit me about drummers. If you're close miking the drums, he says to remember to explain tot he drummer that he/she is NOT playing live. They have to rebalance their sound and hit the cymbals LIGHTER. If they want a louder cymbal sound later, that's fine, but you can just bring the overheads up. What you GET if they're playing too loud is a) they cymbals taking over the toms (even if you're close miking the toms as well) and b) a wish wash sound that sounds kinda like an mp3. lots of "on the fly" phasing things going on as the cymbal rocks back and forth!

So yeah. . .drummers. . .lol

[RodC]

Basicly the ones that do this want to put their audience deaf in the first 2 or 3 measures... That way you wont be able to hear how bad they suck. I have done live sound and recorded both kinds of drummers. Seems like the younger ones, (not just in years) always pound the heck out of cymbals.

Just kid around with them before you start recording and ask them how often they have to replace their crash, you'll find out what kind they are pretty fast.

[Catoogie]

Didn't Pete Townshend actually take drums and cymbals off of Keith Moon's kit when they were recoding so he couldn't hit them?

[Mark Alan Miller]

Inexperience.


And many inexperienced drummers who I've recorded look at me crosseyed when I ask (very politely) for them to not smash their cymbals, and let the microphones do the work. The 'red light' then goes on and they're still mashing the crap outta them.
Sometimes, when they hear a playback, and ask for more toms, for example, and I turn up the tom mics, only to get more cymbal wash, they get it. Sometimes even then they say 'you can fix that in the mix, right? I nailed that take!' (often not true.) So then I have to say no, but if you insist on that take, I'll do my best. Then sometimes in mix, when the cymbals are still making the snare or toms sound puny and they still want magic. I have to explain again that they hit their cymbals too hard. Sometimes, then, then get it. Others look at me like I don't know how to do my job. Brother.

Their response many times along the way on this includes "but that's how I play - it sounds great to me".

Sometimes drummers simply 'get it' and all goes great, too.

[John Jeffers]

Drummers who hit too hard also tend to have huge, thick crashes because they don't break as easily, so that just compounds the problem.

[ryanlikestorock]

I spent many months doing live sound for a band with two quiet singers, a very dynamic guitar/bass/keyboard combo and the loudest drummer known to man. We were the opening band on a larger tour, so he had to set up his kit in front of the drum riser - putting him about 5 feet behind the singer.

I tried so hard to explain the effect his kit (especially the cymbols) was having on the sound of the band and although he was really cool about it, it never really got much better. He bought lighter cymbols though... which helped a lot.

Young bands don't listen to each other when they play. They follow cues, but not the context. It really made me realize how lucky I am to work with my brother, one of the best musician/producer-friendly drummers around.

[Coco]

Inexperience.

Got to love those guys that play with isolation phones live all the time too. No dynamics, just SMASHHHHHHHHHHH all the way through a song. Listening to that for a whole set is about as exciting as watching paint dry. Why cant those guys just chill and think about the song and not worry about showing off their lame chops.

[Studio2roll]

From working live and recorded sound it seems to me that most inexperienced drummers try to keep their time steady by constantly riding the cymbols (i.e. keeping time with their hands) so they can have their feet free to wail on the double kick pedals.
I'm not a huge fan of double kicks. Drummers who get one too early in learning never get past doing the "Offtime Hardcore Shuffle". They never develop any rhythm feel for their playing. Most of the good drummers I've heard only use theirs once and a while to accent differently.

[Chris Adolf]

I know what you mean. I think that Dave Grohl and the way drums were recorded back in the 90's had a huge influence on drummers and how they think that they wanna record. It worked for Narvana but it's not apropriate for everything. It usualy just washes everything out and makes EVERYTHING sound like an overhead.
Try this on a cymbal smashing drummer: Reposition his cymbals so they are sloped at a steeper angle toards the drummer. That way he hits them at more of an angle and can't get a good angle with the stick to smash it. When the cymbals are flat (parallel to the floor) the drummer has a great angle to hit them extremely hard. Some drummers even angle their cymbals away from them (angled towards the audience) to make the cymbals even louder. Great for good live rock drummers but awefull if the band wants to tighten things up in the studio. Try repositioning the cymbals sloping towards the drummer during a recording session. That way the drummer doesnt have to adjust his playing style so he still performs well.
If it is a great drummer that knows what he's doing don't touch a thing on his set and just do your job.

[r0ck1r0ck2]

this is me



gor is angry with drummer...he will hide cymbals up drummers ass..

[knobtwirler]

Try this on a cymbal smashing drummer: Reposition his cymbals so they are sloped at a steeper angle toards the drummer.

Touch the drummer's set!? Oh my.

[xpulsar]

I'm a drummer of 25 years and it drives me nuts when they smash the shit out of the Hat's. One thing I'll do is to make them raise their cymbals up higher to get them out of the close mics ,works sometimes.
Another thing I'll do is set up a separate headphone mix for them and make the OH real loud and boost highs in the drum mix so that when they turn the drums up they get mostly cymbals.and try and get them to play off of what they hear in the head phone mix.Explaining that if they want to hear the drums better to hit the drums harder and the cymbals lighter.This will curb some of them smashing the cymbals.

I'll also use a Figure of 8 Mic like C414 or cheaper multi pattern condensor mics( I prefer coles 4038 or royer ribbons), With the null of the pattern level with the cymbals .If done right the close mics will have very little cymbal bleed.

Collin

[snuffinthepunk]

perhaps it's because cymbals don't fight back?

Snares toms and kicks bounce whatever is beating them back off...so if a rock drummer is playin a rockin ass song, he's (or she's) all pumped up but he can't just beat the shit out of the snare and toms and kicks all the time, there's resistance and he has to use his skill to regulate the sticks and what not. But, that's not necessarily so with the cymbals, and it feels good to knock the hell out of somethin if you're really into a song or your playing. Yes? No? Maybe? That's just my psychological approach to the situation.

[r0ck1r0ck2]

angry gor...

i said to him...(the best drummer i've deealt with...sad)
"can you hit the cymbals lighter"
he laughed and said
"no"

the headphone mix
it will be hell for him...
i don't want to punish him...
no wait i do...

thanks gents