DVD Backups from Sonar

mingus2112 · Post by **mingus2112** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:39 am

I know there's a million backup threads, but this one's different. It's a little more specific. I also didn't want to hijack anyone else's thread!

So I've already chosen my backup medium. DVD-R. I also keep hard drive backups, etc. My PROBLEM is backing up in Sonar is just. . .well. . .weird. For those of you unfamiliar with Sonar's file structure, the Audio files are just 24bit wav files stored in an "Audio Data" directory. The it stores the project files in another directory.

You can also save the files as a cakewalk bundle file. This wraps all of the project data and audio files into one file. This, I think, is the most useful format for backup. The problem is for songs that have multiple mixes. Multiple takes are fine. You want to keep all of that. If I have two different mixes. . .of the same song. . .well. . .then it's weird. Because now I have two 700M bundle files containing 698M of the same data. Big waste when I get to songs that have 4 or 5 mixes.

What does everyone else do that has Sonar? I've got 200G of audio data that needs to be gotten rid of. It's time to throw it all on DVD.

-James

KennyLusk · Post by **KennyLusk** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:56 am

I use Sonar and to be honest with you, my personal philosophy on backups is to save the whole mix as a cakewalk bundle file no matter how big it is. I don't trust the project file concept or cakewalk's pathing architecture so I just save everything the project file needs as a bundle; no matter how redundant. Storage space is cheap - a good mix is priceless.

mingus2112 · Post by **mingus2112** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:00 am

KennyLusk wrote: Storage space is cheap - a good mix is priceless.

Good call. I ultimately want to get EVERYTHING off my audio drive and reformat. Start clean. I'm just afraid of losing something. Deleting files is scarey. . .If I have a backup or not!

-James

blunderfonics · Post by **blunderfonics** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:01 am

Do yourself a favor and switch to using Per Project Audio folders NOW!
(Options | Global | Audio Data | Use PPA).

Going forward everytime you start a new project SONAR will ask you where you want to put the project and then all .CWP files will go into the folder you created. Audio files will go into a sub-folder of the directory you specify. When it comes time to back stuff up just dump the whole folder onto DVD and burn. This will eliminate having to save redundant copies of audio and keep all audio related to a given project together in one place.

To deal with the files you have now I would 1) Switch to Per Project Audio folders and then 2) Open a project and go File | Save As. On the Save As dialog check the box to "Copy all audio with project". Specify the project directory, and the audio directory will automatically be set to ...\*your project directory*\Audio. Click OK and everything will get moved to your new folder. From then on work on the .CWP files and save revisions/alternate mixes in this new folder.

mingus2112 · Post by **mingus2112** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:10 am

blunderfonics wrote:Do yourself a favor and switch to using Per Project Audio folders NOW!
(Options | Global | Audio Data | Use PPA).

Forgot to mention my take on this part! Hopefully i've thought of it as wrong for all of these years! This was released in what. . .Sonar 3? I was at first very excited and then I got to thinking. Wouldn't that be the same as bundle files size-wise? If you have two project files. . .two different mixes of the same thing. . .wouldn't you then have two folders full of files?

OR. . .can you save multiple project files in the SAME audio project folder with no headaches?? HMMMMMM. . .

and for the record. . .as i'm replying to this i'm kicking myself. . .this should have been in the computer forum. . .can anybody move it?

SORRY!

-James

blunderfonics · Post by **blunderfonics** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:31 am

mingus2112 wrote: Wouldn't that be the same as bundle files size-wise? If you have two project files. . .two different mixes of the same thing. . .wouldn't you then have two folders full of files?

OR. . .can you save multiple project files in the SAME audio project folder with no headaches?? HMMMMMM. . .

That's it!

You would save different mixes or revisions as seperate .CWP files but in the same master project folder. This way takes are only written to audio once and shared between the various revisions. These files reference the same audio, so the total size would be much smaller than 2 independant .CWB files or saving 2 independent projects with the same audio data to 2 seperate folders.

I always save revisions of my work as I go along so I will often have 15 to 20 .CWP files in the project folder. So as I go along I will save files such as:

Song Name - Basic Tracks
Song Name - Keeper Take
Song Name - Overdubs Day 1, 2 , etc.
Song Name - Rough Mix
Song Name - Final Mix
Song Name - Vocals Up 2dB Mix

Thats if I'm not being lazy. Often I just end up with:

Song Name
Song Name 1
Song Name 2

...and so on. This has never caused me a problem once I got in the habit of always using Per Project Audio folders.

spankenstein · Post by **spankenstein** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:10 am

Echoing the use per project. Makes it really easy. You can't make big bundles... at least I can't. I also don't want to really on just that SONAR specific file. Name your tracks before recording them then the .wav will be appropriately named in the Audio directory.

llmonty · Post by **llmonty** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:25 am

+3 on per project saving - all the mixes you want, referencing the same audio files.

mingus2112 · Post by **mingus2112** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:59 am

thanks guys. . .this all seems more feasable now!

so i guess i have to start opening one thing at a time and resaving it in "per project audio folders". . .should take some time. . .i've got almost 200G on that drive. . .i have a 250G backup drive though, so it may be easy.

Thanks!

LeedyGuy · Post by **LeedyGuy** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:19 am

I had the total wrong impression of the Per Project Audio Folders. wow...this changes things...im considering backing up some stuff too...

mingus2112 · Post by **mingus2112** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:23 am

Hey Ken. . .I guess we know what we're doing this weekend!

KennyLusk · Post by **KennyLusk** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:24 pm

mingus2112 wrote:Hey Ken. . .I guess we know what we're doing this weekend!

Well, first on my list this weekend is soldering my new Bill Lawrence pickups into my Strat.

...then I'll take a fresh look at the per project approach.

There's definitely a logic being presented here that I hadn't considered and I admit I can be overly "retentive" about backing up my mixes. I love Sonar. Sonar has done everything I need it to do and more so I may as well consider updating my backup procedures. Great thread with awesome answers.

llmonty · Post by **llmonty** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:59 pm

you know, it has always bugged me that the tapeop conference doesn't have a sonar session, but has all the others. I am on V4, and it is just fantastic for me. Especially with the tweaks by 4 - from file management and sharing to work management - grouping of tracks/takes, built in eq, some decent plugs (though better instruments would be great), ability to score things, etc.

mingus2112 · Post by **mingus2112** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:16 am

Yep. . .I love Sonar. What drem me to it in the first place was it's feel of a real recording environment. Using it over the years, the features added on have enhanced it.

As for the backups, I started this weekend. First I tried a project that I wasn't afraid to lose.

1) I switched to per project audio folders.
2) Saved all of the project files in a new folder
3) Deleted the original project files (and emptied my recycle bin)
4) Went to Tools -> Clean Audio Folder and found abandoned waves (which happened to be the ones associated with that project)

The project reopened fine! I did it on one other that I really need to keep, but am afraid to delete the old file! Guess they'll stay there for awhile!

-James

river · Post by **river** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:34 am

Hey mingus,

If you haven't gotten around to your housecleaning yet, use the "Consolidate Audio" feature. If your audio files on a given project are in folders with other audio files, this will copy the specific files to a new dedicated folder with just a mouse click.

The other advantage to per project is if a project crashes, you won't lose everything else too.

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DVD Backups from Sonar

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