RAM vs. Processor Speed

[Ben Logan]

Hi Folks,

As far as running plugins is concerned, which is more important: amount of RAM or Processor Speed?

I've only got 256k of RAM going, on a 1.7 ghz Dell Machine. I can run about three Convolution reverbs, and a few eq's, but that's about it. Is more RAM the solution? Or, am I being limited by processer speed?

When I open the "System Performance" meter on Logic Audio, the little bar on the left is the one that shoots way up. I think it's labeled "Audio." The one on the right I believe is labeled "Disk I/O," and doesn't seem to struggle nearly as much.

Thanks guys,
Ben

[sonikbliss]

CPU speed is more important to most plugins. RAM will be more useful for apps such as software samplers/synths.

That said you could still benefit from installing some more RAM, especially when it's as cheap as it is. 256k just doesn't cut it, try to upgrade to about 1Gig if you can afford it.

[Ben Logan]

Hmmmm. RAM for my computer is kind of expensive (as far as RAM goes, I think). For 512 MB it sells used for 140.

I've got my eye on the UAD 1176 LN for my UAD-1 Card too. Of course, if I get this instead of the RAM, it'd mean rendering more tracks (poor man's effects freeze) to free up plugin resources.

Sounds like RAM isn't going to allow me to run all that many more reverbs and eq's like I'd hoped (?) I don't really use software synths, except for fun knob tweaking, so these aren't really all that important to me. Darn it!

[marc]

I don't really use software synths, except for fun knob tweaking, so these aren't really all that important to me. Darn it!

Well, you're not going to be able to record 16 tracks at once with 256M of RAM, either. You're talking about running lots of plugins, which is all signal processing--which in turn is processor intensive--but don't forget that playback and recording also require a good chunk of RAM to run efficiently, as well.

[Phiz]

FYI, with convolution reverbs, reducing the length of the impulse can greatly reduce the amount of processing power (CPU) required. Depending on how the plugin is written, reducing the bit depth or sampling frequency of the impulse may also reduce the processing power required.

[Ben Logan]

Thanks Marc and Phiz. The most tracks I record at once is 2, since I just record me. But yeah, come to think of it, I do get stutters on playback that more RAM might smooth out.

Thanks for the bit-depth convo-verb advice too.

[hammertime]

Probably CPU speed is the most important for a convolution reverb, because the size of the .dat file isn't that big, but there's a shitload of little mathematical operations going on (applying the little convolution .dat file to whatever other files you put into it) so you need alot of cpu power. It would be different if you were say, using, a virtual instrument with a 500 megabyte sample, and you're sample didn't use disk streaming. If you have a plugin with a huge sample that doesn't use disk streaming, you'll need alot of Ram.

Hi Folks,

As far as running plugins is concerned, which is more important: amount of RAM or Processor Speed?

I've only got 256k of RAM going, on a 1.7 ghz Dell Machine. I can run about three Convolution reverbs, and a few eq's, but that's about it. Is more RAM the solution? Or, am I being limited by processer speed?

When I open the "System Performance" meter on Logic Audio, the little bar on the left is the one that shoots way up. I think it's labeled "Audio." The one on the right I believe is labeled "Disk I/O," and doesn't seem to struggle nearly as much.

Thanks guys,
Ben

[Ben Logan]

So hammertime, the cpu handles all the mathematical computation required for convolution, and the RAM keeps the Impulse Response served up for the audio to bounce against, so to speak?

What about with EQ - like the Waves Rennaissance EQ for instance? Is this one more of a CPU or a RAM user. I'm guessing CPU?

Until posting this thread, I was thinking I was about 150 bucks worth of RAM away from unlimited plugin use with my 1.7 ghz machine. I'm having to rethink that - bigtime...

[hammertime]

I'm not exactly sure how much Ram some of these plugins use. As far as I know, the convolution impulse (which is a relatively small .wav file) is stored in Ram, and then the CPU works it's ass off making a pretty intensive calculation between that and the audio you're convoluting. It doesn't really take much Ram, because not a whole lot is being stored, since it's a realtime effect, and the sound is going right out to your soundcard. But I think all plugins require some memory for buffers, although I'm not sure -- it should be relatively minimal in alot of cases (especially e.q.) Some plugins, e.g., spectrasonics trilogy, have big .dat files (samples), that are loaded into RAM, so you need alot of RAM. I don't think the Ren Eq is that much of a resource hog. The convolution reverbs are a motherfucker, though. You might be better off saving your money, and getting one of those UAD-1's, which will take some of the heat off of your computers RAM and CPU. Or just wait to upgrade your computer.

So hammertime, the cpu handles all the mathematical computation required for convolution, and the RAM keeps the Impulse Response served up for the audio to bounce against, so to speak?

What about with EQ - like the Waves Rennaissance EQ for instance? Is this one more of a CPU or a RAM user. I'm guessing CPU?

Until posting this thread, I was thinking I was about 150 bucks worth of RAM away from unlimited plugin use with my 1.7 ghz machine. I'm having to rethink that - bigtime...

[marc]

This has probably been answered elsewhere, but while it's still [moderately] on topic, how do those UAD-1 cards work? i.e. can you offload any generic plugin onto it, or does it have to be a UA plugin for the card to process?

[John Jeffers]

This has probably been answered elsewhere, but while it's still [moderately] on topic, how do those UAD-1 cards work? i.e. can you offload any generic plugin onto it, or does it have to be a UA plugin for the card to process?

Only UA plugins can use it.

[darjama]

If you need to squeeze more effects out of your machine, how about running the 1 convolution reverb on an aux bus instead of 3 separate instances? It should save you some cpu power, or let you run it at a higher quality.

In terms of an upgrade, if a little ram will cost that much more, i'd consider a new machine. the uad card costs $400 minimum, and for a couple hundred more than that you could have a full new system.

[Ben Logan]

Darjama,

Good idea with putting the Convo Reverb on an aux bus. My version of Logic doesn't have full Plugin Delay Compensation though. Too much latency when putting something on a bus.

Marc,

The UAD-1 card is sweet. I've actually got one. The card itself does all the digital signal processing. So, if you're running three LA-2A's and a couple of Pultec EQ's (which will pretty much max out 1 card's power), you're doing so without any significant hit to your cpu. It's like the card's got it's own cpu. Love that thing.

Hammertime,

Thanks for the follow up about RAM usage with respect to Convoverb and EQ. Great info.

[joel hamilton]

The UAD-1 card is sweet. I've actually got one. The card itself does all the digital signal processing. So, if you're running three LA-2A's and a couple of Pultec EQ's (which will pretty much max out 1 card's power), you're doing so without any significant hit to your cpu. It's like the card's got it's own cpu. Love that thing.

That is how TDM rigs work for all the plugs. They "live" on process cards, rather than using the hosts CPU at all. That is how I record 120 tracks of 96K with plug ins all over the place with a G4 450!

The third party cards are really an amazing thing for a host based system. Anything you can make work instead of the CPU seems like a great idea. I am glad a bunch of companies are FINALLY doing this for LE/Logic/ native users. SO much more power when you have some dedicated hardware in there.

[Ben Logan]

The UAD-1 card is sweet. I've actually got one. The card itself does all the digital signal processing. So, if you're running three LA-2A's and a couple of Pultec EQ's (which will pretty much max out 1 card's power), you're doing so without any significant hit to your cpu. It's like the card's got it's own cpu. Love that thing.

That is how TDM rigs work for all the plugs. They "live" on process cards, rather than using the hosts CPU at all. That is how I record 120 tracks of 96K with plug ins all over the place with a G4 450!

The third party cards are really an amazing thing for a host based system. Anything you can make work instead of the CPU seems like a great idea. I am glad a bunch of companies are FINALLY doing this for LE/Logic/ native users. SO much more power when you have some dedicated hardware in there.

Didn't know that about TDM.

Now if only someone would release a cheaper version of the Magma Chassis (device to convert PCI Card to Firewire). Last I checked, you could buy a whole PC for what they cost.

Speaking of your G4 450, I have two G4 iMacs which run native stuff wonderfully. Since I can't use my UAD-1 card with either of them (iMacs have no PCI slots), I had to switch over to PC to use UAD-1.

So yeah, I'm with you Joel. The DSP card is a wonderful invention. It allows broke working-class dudes like me a crack at "pro-style" processing (though my garage-studio will never be "pro"). Wish someone would step up and market an affordable PCI to Firewire converter.