(simple?) but good drum sound

[thefiremelted]

i just got an alesis firewire mixer to do some diy at home recording, and im finding that using random mics isnt working well... i was wondering if i could get some advice to a moderately simple but good drum set up? im not really sure what to look for, im just trying to get a decent sound for indie/rock music. any help would be wonderful!

[I'm Painting Again]

you have a good drum kit that sounds "right" to you in the room you record in?

[thefiremelted]

well its recorded in a garage so the sound isnt perfect, but it sounds fine to me. i just cant match that sound right now

[jrsgodfrey]

Well once you get what Bees is at worked out, you can try the Gly John's method -- it's about the simplest and a good starting point.

http://www.danalexanderaudio.com/glynjohns.htm

Getting the "overheads" as close as possible to the same distance from the snare and kick beater is key, imo.

Makes mixing faster, that's for sure.

Have fun.

[Ken]

Depends on what your budget is.

I've gotten awesome drum sounds with four mics (somewhat jazz sounding kit but with the guy playing some rock stuff during the session as well):
2 small diaphragm condensers for overheads (same kind of mic for both)
1 large diaphragm condenser for the outside of the kick
1 large diaphragm condenser for a room mic

But there's variations on this, such as one omni for overheads instead, choosing to mic the snare, dispensing with the room mic, etc.

I start by setting up the overheads, and listen for what the drums need from there.

Next you're gonna ask what mics you might use...

You'll get a ton of opinions on this, but really, it largely depends on your budget.

If you're really in a pinch, forget the condensers that I mentioned above and try seeing what happens if you set up the things in variations of this setup with stuff like the (sometimes lowly) SM 57. Or something like it.

Sometimes you can get Audio-Technica AT4041 small diaphragm condensers for US$200 each. They're nice for the money.

Sennheiser 421s are nice. So are beyerdynamic M201s. Both these are dynamics. They're not super cheap (i.e., under US$200), but they're nice.

For other condensers, some people seem to really like Oktavas or Marshalls for cheap. For US$400, a Rode NTK is nice.

I'm making the assumption that you are on a budget, so that's why I'm kinda mentioning this stuff.

I'm gonna also mention that it's a little bit less about the mics, and more about how your drummer plays, how the kit's tuned, how the room sounds (often an overlooked but oh-so-important consideration). If you've got a great drummer on a great kit that's tuned well in a great sounding room, any halfway decent engineer's gonna get a really good drum sound with even modest equipment. Seriously. So f'rinstance, spending time getting that drum kit really well tuned will pay off in dividends. Same with getting the room (garage) sounding good. That kind of thing.

Good luck!!

[thefiremelted]

thanks for the response, looks like i have some thinking to do... i was also wondering if you guys had any opinons on drum mic kits, such as the shure pg-6 kit? http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... c=3SOSWXXA

[Ken]

Not familiar with that kit. I was really impressed with the Earthworks Drum Kit Demo CD (the kit is three mics plus a kick pad), but that's $expensive$, I think around US$2400-2500. But an impressive demo, with a very full rich sound that captures the character of the toms and the rest of the kit.

[jrsgodfrey]

Hey,

If you're in the NY/CT/NJ area, I spied this set of mics on craiglist just now.

http://newyork.craigslist.org/wch/msg/133997132.html

[Ken]

Hey,

If you're in the NY/CT/NJ area, I spied this set of mics on craiglist just now.

http://newyork.craigslist.org/wch/msg/133997132.html

3- Shure sm -81 LC Mics
1- Shure Beta -52
1- Shure sm-57
1- Electrovoice- nd-457
2- Horizon- straightline Direct Boxes

So, yeah, there's yer 57, and I've never used 81s before, but they don't suck. I'll hope that the EV ND457 is noticeably nicer than the ND257, which is kinda ho-hum.

[digitaldrummer]

and make sure you are plugging mics into a mic preamp and not into a line level input (i.e., 1/4"). I think those Alesis mixers have at least 6 pres.

[nlmd311]

thanks for the response, looks like i have some thinking to do... i was also wondering if you guys had any opinons on drum mic kits, such as the shure pg-6 kit? http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... c=3SOSWXXA

I'd recommend against the Shure PG-series stuff. While I can't vouch for anything other than the Shure PG52, I just wouldn't spend $400 on that pack when you could spend $90 on a new SM57, a Beta 52 for less than $200 on eBay and spend the remaining on whatever condenser you might like or think suits your needs.
I liked the PG52 while I had it, but in retrospect really don't like it much at all. Sounds like cardboard. No definition and just thuddy, mushy, and all the other annoying comparisons one could make.
This way you could have some microphones you most likely won't want to sell after 6 months (or less!) and will actually be able to resell if you needed to and get some return on your investment.
And yes, do keep your eye out on your local craigslist as well as eBay. Give yourself a spending limit and do your research. Nothing cooler than adding a new microphone let alone a set! Don't rush into buying something just to buy it (like I do with just about everything I have owned, resold and/or still own.)

Just a thought or two.

-Darrill

[thefiremelted]

after a bit of research, im considering getting a pair of sm57s to temporarily use as overheads, and then get a pair of octava mk012's for overheads and use the 57 for snare (maybe use the other for bass)... what do you think?

[knobtwirler]

Look, your drums are ina garage. Don't get too crazy about everything, but be realistic. You said you like the way they sound now. Rule #1 is put a room mic or a stereo pair of room mics somewhere in there until it sounds right to you on playback, not just when you are listening and not recording. Then go to the close mics, like kick and snare. Use condensers if you have 'em for the room mics, dynamics on everything else, or use a condenser on the hat if you have one. Roll off everything below 250Hz on the hat. Roll off everything below 100Hz on the snare. Try taking out 300-500Hz on the kick and adding some hi shelf at 10kHz. That's 5 mics. Got two more mics? decide if you want them on the cymbals or toms, or a blend to catch them all. Have fun this is priceless information.

[A.David.MacKinnon]

Look, your drums are ina garage. Don't get too crazy about everything, but be realistic.

Agreed. You need a method more than gear.
You should be able to get the sound with 2 mics, 4 if you want to get fancy. Start with a mono overhead - you'll have fewer phase issues with only one overhead and it's quiker and easier to set up than two (plus mono drums rock). You want the overhead be 90% of the drum picture (not just for cymbals) so move it around until the whole kit sounds good. Next set up a room mic. Find a spot where it sounds good with the overhead. If you like the way the drums sound in the room then you should be able to get pretty close to that sound with just these two mics.
If you have more mics and more time then add mics on the kick and snare. Remeber that these mics are there to fill out what your getting with the overhead/room combo. Make sure they work well with the overhead and room mic up - there's no point in geeking out on the kick mic placement for an hour only to have it sound like shit with the overhead.
If you still have more time and mics then you can move on to tom mics, stereo room mics, stereo overheads, double mics on kick and snare, mics behind the drummers head, mics in the other room, etc, etc, etc. The important thing to ALWAYS remeber is that it all starts with the overhead (or overheads) and works out from there. If the overhead room combo sounds good then you'll be fine. If they suck your drum sound will suck.

[knobtwirler]

If the overhead room combo sounds good then you'll be fine. If they suck your drum sound will suck.

YES!