apogee rosetta as master clock

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ryangeller
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apogee rosetta as master clock

Post by ryangeller » Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:56 am

is anyone out there using the rosetta 200 as a master clock / converter for PT/Logic using the 002Rack as an interface? how does the rosetta 200 clock compare to the big ben? will this addition (rosetta 200) make a huge improvement in my system?

i typically run my sessions @ 96k and do most tracking at other studios and then come back here for some overdubs (vocals, bass, acoustic gtr etc) and production and some innitial mixing. is there a way to hook up both the big ben and rosetta 200 to the 002rack at the same time for 96k sessions? is this overkill? i don't intend to get both apogee units, so i guess my real question is whether or not the rosetta's clock is close in quality to the big ben's.
thanks, ryan

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Post by versuviusx » Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:39 am

this is what i can tell you.
the new apogee stuff is gonna smoke your digi stuff. i have the roseeta 200 and it's freakin amazing. it's a mastering ad/da converter. and from what i have heard the only thing that is gonna even compete with it is the prizm and the lavry converters. so these are pretty much up there. the big Ben is a dedicated clock so they don't do the same thing. one is for AD/DA conversion and then one is a dedicated mastering clock, but i guess the 200 could be use for clocking too. on final note if you need a dedicated clock and you want to use it with the 002 converters than cool. but the real way to go is to get the aopogee ad/da and then the BIG ben clock. the big ben was designed to be use with apogee products. it's not like they were using other AD/DA's when making the BIG ben. they used other converters for shootouts and for comparison. but i think they made the big ben to specifically compliment the apogee 200 and the 800. it's not cheap. but if i were you i would get rid of the digi 002 and get the apogee stuff and then go with NUENDO or CUBASE 3. then your system would be smoking assuming you had good mic pres and mics...oh and also good cable(mogami/canare).
if i had the money i would get a big Ben.
also on final note the new apogee stuff is way way better than the old apogee stuff. just because it says apogee doesn't mean that is good. you have the old purple stuff and you have the new silver stuff. the silver stuff kills the purple stuff. it's new technology. and the big ben is something very radical and i don't believe lavry will be able to make it because it's not something that can easily be copied or reverse engineered. from my understanding there are other AD/DA converter manfg such as prizm or lavry who can hang with there AD/DA manufacturing processes....BUT they can not hang with their BIG BEN alternative manufacturing...meaning finding good ad/da converters is easy.......... finding a mastering clock like the BIG BEN is not. it's really really really complicated stuff:making a mastering clock. that's why i'm thinking that the chinese will eventually rip off american and german/swiss designs with the AD/DA converters but one thing is for sure is that copying or cloning the BIG BEN is going is most likely not gonna happen.from my understanding it's special not because it's an apogee mastering clock but because the apogee design is so radically different and sophisticated. it's like genius stuff. what i mean is there are some stuff that you can put in your hands and you say "eh this is simple." then there are some stuff like this and you say"eh...this is rediculous."
one thing you can do to find out your self is to buy the 200 and then return it within 30 days and then buy the BIG BEN to find out what your ears tell you. BUT if you can and have enough credit try to get the 2 in the same room at the same time. i bet you will be surprised.

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Post by chris harris » Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:05 am

it's my understanding that the last poster has some serious misunderstandings.

it happens all the time on forums... when you talk authoritatively about things that you really don't understand, you end up sounding silly. and, you also end up confusing people.

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Post by @?,*???&? » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:06 am

Good mid-range clarity with the Rosetta.

E-Rock
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Post by E-Rock » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:26 am

I am in the same boat, I'm usually just doing overdubs at my home studio.
I have been eyeing the Rosetta 200 for awhile now. It seems like the best way to upgrade my Digi002r.
Does anyone know why Digi decided not to put word clock on the 002? Is it because they suck? :)

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Post by thearnicasync » Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:13 pm

subatomic pieces wrote:it's my understanding that the last poster has some serious misunderstandings.

it happens all the time on forums... when you talk authoritatively about things that you really don't understand, you end up sounding silly. and, you also end up confusing people.
You must be the authority on internet messageboards.

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Post by versuviusx » Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:18 pm

i was just trying to help out and be as clear as i could be. call apogee and talk to maxx. he will give you the low down.

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Post by versuviusx » Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:24 pm

also i'd like to know how i misinformed someone. learning is a great thing.

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Post by chris harris » Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:04 pm

thearnicasync wrote:
subatomic pieces wrote:it's my understanding that the last poster has some serious misunderstandings.

it happens all the time on forums... when you talk authoritatively about things that you really don't understand, you end up sounding silly. and, you also end up confusing people.
You must be the authority on internet messageboards.
no.. but, I can tell when someone is blowing smoke.
I appreciate the detail of the post. I appreciate that the poster was trying to help.

but, the poster should have been honest and acknowledged that he doesn't know much about the subject aside from owning a rosetta 200 and reading some literature.

using the term "mastering" in front of "converter" or "clock" is misleading.
insinuating that Apogee is the only company making a high-end clock is misleading.
Prizm and Larvy aren't the only companies making converters that rival Apogees.

I realize that the poster had his heart in the right place... but, c'mon...

If the poster had stuck to telling us how much he loves his Rosetta 200 and how it differs from other converters that he's ACTUALLY USED, then the post would have been much more helpful.
but, as it was posted, it seems about as helpful as the "experts" at Guitar Center.

no offense...

but, really, some people use forums like this to make decisions about equpment to try. I don't condone that... but, it happens. and, when people speak as if they know what they are talking about, other people listen. that's why it's best to stick to what you KNOW and not spout off things that you may have "heard" as if they were facts.

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Post by @?,*???&? » Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:49 pm

E-Rock wrote:I am in the same boat, I'm usually just doing overdubs at my home studio.
I have been eyeing the Rosetta 200 for awhile now. It seems like the best way to upgrade my Digi002r.
Does anyone know why Digi decided not to put word clock on the 002? Is it because they suck? :)
I would strongly suspect it has to do with the 'host processor' based design of their LE systems. With their upper end systems, there is always a main sync unit that accepts word clock.

The work around is to have your LE system clock to an adat lightpipe input from an external adat lightpipe source such as a Behringer ADA8000 or equivalent or better. In doing mix transfers to 1/2" analog 2-track for the Penumbrae "One Way Drive" disc I was able to listen to my LE system clocked to a Rosetta or the ADA8000 I had used during tracking and mixing. I ended up using the Rosetta for it's better mid-range clarity (see above), but did prefer the high frequency clarity of the Behringer unit. All I did was switch the Pro Tools software over to 'optical' for the sync source. Adat is always sending clock unlike S/PDIF and AES/EBU.

Pretty neat really. In the end, you could even clock into the Rosetta and simply drive your LE system with the adat lightpipe from an externally clocked Rosetta. Even neater.

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Post by ryangeller » Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:59 pm

thanks guys. i've been pretty busy the last few days and hadnt even noticed that anyone had responded to my post. i ordered the rosetta about a week ago and still waiting to get it. i'll let you know how it goes. i've had experience w/ the big ben, and the older psx and ad800 units, but never w/ the rosetta series. the big ben and rosetta are out of the the question at this point.

now the only issue is interfacing and monitoring. i'm thinking that ill monitor through the d/a of the rosetta.. but then i need gain control. i could shoot that into a tascam 1082 that i have which can function as a standalone mixer, but since it's digital and the signal will be resampled, is that completely defeating the purpose, or is it still a better idea than monitoring through the digi002 and using its converters and monitor gain control? eventually i'lll get some passive monitor box- but the front end will come way before i have $ for the monitoring.

concerning hooking up the rosetta to my digi using the spdif connection, is it cool for me to just solder myself some 75ohm coaxial cable w/ gold rca's or should i spend the @ on premade stuff w/ all the hype?

thanks again for the help guys, and ill let you know how it all sounds when it comes. looking foward to the rosetta and manley mono mic pre instead of the digi pres, converters, and clock.

--ryan

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Post by roadworthy » Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:17 am

Glad this thread is going. I would appreciate other's opinions on this topic.

I currently own an 002 rack and run PT LE; I also own a Apogee Rosetta 200. Despite having some pretty decent mics and cables, I have not finished building my preamps just yet. So, this puts me in a bit of a bind...

Temporarily, I have connected my 002 rack to my Rosetta 200 via S/PDIF cables and I'm clocking Pro Tools off the Rosetta's clock. Granted, it's not a BIG BEN, but, in ALL honesty, it appears to my ears that playback of old tracking sessions (but NOW clocked off of the Apogee Rosetta 200) sound better than they did before by simply using the Rosetta's clock... I can't wait to hear the difference in actually using the Rosetta's AD/DA converters, particularly after being somewhat let down by the conversion within the 002 rack.


Has anyone else had experience with this?

Sure, in an ideal world, after I finish building the pres I could clock the Rosetta off a BIG BEN--but who's got that kind of extra dough to buy a dedicated clock?

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Post by ryangeller » Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:53 pm

well i've had the chance to mess around w/ different combos now for a bit and i'm completely happy w/ the apogee upgrade. the clock helped, but the real difference was in the A/D/A conversion. my current project is @ 96k and i tried tracking E gtrs through all different combinations and the digi preamps and conversion sounded really harsh and flat compared to the manley/ apogee combo. i honestly haven't spent enough time A/Bing the clocking differences to tell anyone if the difference is really worth the $1800. but even playing 320kbps mp3s from itunes through the apogee made me smile. now i'm just waiting on my m-patch so that i can attenuate the level instead of sending a really weak signal out of the rosetta.

overall- i think the price tag is worth it if you're tracking through the rosetta (especially at higher sample rates).. but if you're just playing back or mixing, it's a lot of $ for a little more clarity on the D/A. Now if you're in an amazing room w/ great monitors then you're in a different situation- but i'm speaking more about the home studio/ middle- end professional facilities.

hope this helps -- ryan

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Post by roadworthy » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:01 pm

Thanks Ryan. It does help. As it stands, I am not yet in the position to enjoy anything on the Rosetta 200 other than the clock, and--as you point out--that was a big chunk of change to spend on clocking. Now, with the Rosetta doing the clocking, there is a noticeable and genuinely improved difference in listening to old tracking sessions and listening to mp3s... Made me smile as well.

Very happy to hear I have something to look forward to once these pres are done and the Rosetta gets to do what it was designed to do. I have a small home studio with KRK V6 series 2 monitors, so, as you can imagine, this was a huge purchase for me.

What Manley combo are you using?

Thanks again for your insights.

Troy

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