mixing w/ plugin on master bus?

[r0t4ry]

in the charles dye videos he uses mcdsp ac1 on his master bus all the time cause he says it helps the mix stick together better. how many of you do this and can anyone recommend a good plugin for this besides ac1? thanks.

[@?,*???&?]

Mixing with a compressor across the stereo buss can certainly help contain your tracks. Back when 80% of all music was mixed on an SSL console, an engineer would usually engage the wonders of that beloved Quad Compressor that was stock in the center section of such a console.

Using a plugin in a DAW domain could yield the same frenzied, sound.

There are several mastering packs which are quite useful. I think you'd find most on this board use the L1, +L1 or L2 across their buss with frequency. Typically combined with a dither plugin when necessary.

[mjau]

I like to stay away from the comp plugin across the mix buss and try to get a mix as tight as I can without it, and then throw it on there to get an idea what it might sound like with some compression. I do like using the UAD Pultec on the mix buss, but without using any eq. Just having it there seems to do something nice.

[r0t4ry]

ac1 is a saturation/distortion plugin too though. is their any other plugins that emulate console? im not gonna spend $500 for a plugin to put across the bus.

[river]

If saturation is a must, go get BLOCKFISH from digitalfishphones...it's free, and amazing. I use it as a drum mix compressor, need to try main bus sometime. I frequently (but not always) use Waves Renaissance Compressor set to Kneeless Opto on the main bus for a little glue, works great.

[Al_Huero]

You can also check out the free trial saturation plug over in the computer forum. May work well for you and he's selling it for cheap if you want the full version.

[I'm Painting Again]

I like to use as little plug-ins as possible because I honestly hear a degradation with that kind of thing with my work methods and system..I hear a degradation every time i get something back from mastering..sometimes plug-in on the master is what I have to do because I messed up or it honestly needs it..I can't help but feel a comment like "I always use this gizmo in this specific place" is a bit narrow minded..I mean I can't belive that some plugin would make every mix in every situation with every kind of music "stick together" better..I feel like it just doesnt work like that..especially if your goal is to make every project the best you can..you know?

buss effects are often something mixed into rather than slapped on a mix after the mix..there is no one way to work..there is no right way to work..

don't trust anyone who says THIS is THE way to do it..that makes you a follower not a leader or innovator..if everyone jumped off a bridge would you? Thats what why grandma used to say when she was alive..

[subspaceplatform]

Among mix engineers it seems like about a 50/50 split on this issue.

If you DO use a 2-mix compressor, make sure to keep your attack slow in order to let the transients through. It also helps to engage it at the beginning of the mix so that you mix TO it instead of switching it on towards the end of the mix and trying to make it work.

I used to use a compressor and often an eq on the stereo buss as a matter of course, but eventually found that my mixes sound more present without it. It seems better to obtain the sound you're looking for within the actual mix rather than relying on magic boxes at the end of the chain.

Appropriate plug-ins? Haven't used the AC1. Waves Renaissance, perhaps?

[leigh]

Good points here about putting that mix buss compressor on early in the mixing process, so you're mixing to it.

Beard of Bees, I hear you on resisting the "always use it" approach, and in general I agree. When mixing rock songs in a DAW, however, putting some comp/sat/limiting across the mix buss is the closest to universal advice I would offer anyone. Sure, there are exceptions, and there's a lot of range in how much compression you're actually applying, but rock mixes seem to benefit from being pushed a little (or sometimes, a lot). Although, if you're going to be mastering the material, don't overdo it - keep that hyper limiting (abusing L2's and the like) at bay!

It seems better to obtain the sound you're looking for within the actual mix rather than relying on magic boxes at the end of the chain.

But on the other hand, don't fear the magic box! If it really is the sound you're looking for, it's no better to get it one way than the other. This is audio engineering, and the ends justify the means.

Leigh

[chris harris]

It seems better to obtain the sound you're looking for within the actual mix rather than relying on magic boxes at the end of the chain.

tell that to the guys who still mix to analog.

the Fatso has been my magic box of choice lately.

[soundguy]

I posted a long thing on this subject a long time ago, every time I see this subject I chuckle. If you are going to use limiting anywhere, you need to develop a technique to use it. I think, actually Im positive, that the bulk of comments about not liking mix buss compression come from people that have not refined a mix technique that incorporates a limiter on the mix buss. I think most people will agree that it is ok for a mastering engineer to use compression, but then a percentage of that group will suggest that its no ok to use a limiter on the mix buss. This I will never understand. What is the fucking difference? Anyhow, if you do intend to put a limiter on the mix buss you absolutely positively need to mix into it from the first fader going up. The idea that you set up a mix and then just plug it in is really flawed and that right there is the *ultimate* advantage of compressing your mix while you mix instead of having the ME do it for you later. To drive this point home, I align my 2 track through the console and the buss limiter to account for how it effects the frequency response. Adding a box at the end is no diffferent in my estimation than rehearsing a guitar solo and right before you are ready to track it, plugging in a fuzz face or getting a good drum sound and right before you are ready to track, run in and change the 22" kick to a 26" kick. These things make a huge difference and like everything else, you have to learn how to use it, its as simple as that. I have a really specific thing that I use a buss limiter for and Im positive that there are engineers out there that dont use buss limiting at all in the same way. Its justa tool to fit into your style but you know, you need to have some style first to really exploit it... Saving all this crapola, if you plug in the limiter and it doesnt make your mix sound better, promptly unplug it. Thats a pretty simple way to work and it definitely applies to mix buss compression. The world will not end if you dont use it and if you dont use it prepare for what could be a big change when you get your ref's back from mastering. A limiter is just another active amplifier stage. learn how to make it work for you, its not voodo and there's definitely nothing black and white like "never" or "always" use the thing... If you do elect to use a limiter, do yourself a favor and use something that sounds good, hours, weeks or months of work is running through the thing...

dave

[bentonevolution]

I use the PSP MasterComp on the master buss. However, I make sure that the gain reduction is very minimal. If it seems that I need more gain reduction, then something is wrong with my mix. I use it as an enhancer, not to fix problems.

[I'm Painting Again]

Yeah totally..it all depends..like I said..on the method to the madness the individual comes up with to work..so I'm definitely not saying its always a bad thing to use it..and as I said before..It can be whats best even..

[syrupcore]

daves old post: http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... 742#260742

starts with a typically charming line. :)

The whole thread is a pretty good read.


Will

[choke3d]

you know, I'm gonna add something here in light of soundguy's post that might be unpopular. I don't get the idea of re-amping direct guitar tracks for the same reasons you state regarding the mix buss comp. The amp sound I'm using for any given track defines the way I play the strings, the tone set on the guitar, etc. I do re-amp sounds to "twist" them or push them somewhere else sonically, but my understanding is that a lot of people track direct to digital, then re-amp later, right?
Same reason that I always track with a certain amount of compression if I'm going to be using it on a track. Once you know what sound you're going for, why not commit?